HOWEDY Oddities,
Post by Odditieshttp://www.cnn.com/2008/US/06/15/dog.swept.away.ap/index.html
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Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
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Insanely Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey,
SpHOWES, And Horsey Wizard, Director Of
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INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End
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The actual INSTRUCTION begins on the third page "*777*
Wits' End Method", abHOWET 1/4 down the page starting
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There you will find ALL the FREE information you need
to pupperly handle raise and train your pets and family.
Just follow the instructions PRECISELY and ASK me if
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Post by OdditiesNEW YORK (AP) -- A street-sweeping truck roaring down a Bronx
street sucked up a dog and killed her as her owner held the leash.
Oh? Do they think it broke ITS back?
LIKE THIS?:
Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
90 From: Sionnach
Date: Mon, Oct 9 2006 1:19 am
Email: "Sionnach" <***@msn.com>
*I* was thanking the Deity that the NCR trail
was not my choice of hiking area today!!!!
Sorry, Paul, but the gloves are now off, because if I HAD
chosen the NCR trail today - rather than another local trail-
you would have been putting ***MY*** beloved dogs at
risk of serious injury or death. ***MY*** DOGS.
What the FUCKING HELL is **WRONG** with you???
Your dog, which you have repeatedly admitted you can't
control, just made a near-lethal unprovoked attack on
another dog in obedience class, and you TOOK HIM
OUT ON THE TRAILS WHERE THERE ARE OTHER
DOGS?????
You do that again, when my dogs are around, and he attacks
one of them, you won't have to worry about having him put
down - I will either break his spine or choke him to death
right then and there.
I'm dead fucking serious, Mr. Schoen.
----------------------
Post by OdditiesRobert Machin said he had just finished walking his two Boston
terriers and was about to put them into his car when the truck
appeared Thursday morning. The retired transit worker said he
was suddenly whipped around and saw one of the dogs, Ginger,
being swallowed by the sweeper's round bristles.
Is that what he wanted to do? If he was any good with
a knife he coulda just STABBED IT like HOWE paul
e. schoen done:
Paul E. Schoen on Sun Sep 02, 2007 wrote:
"I have a very vivid and terrible memory of the time when
my dog was viciously attacked by a larger dog in the woods
near our house. The girl who owned the dog was beating it
with a stick, and I stabbed it in the neck. Both dogs survived,
but after that, I always carried a stout stick with me when
walking our dog. This was back in the 60s, when leash laws
were very lax or non-existent, and before everybody was lawsuit
crazy, and when the few drug dealers and thugs in the few bad
areas of town were deathly afraid of all big dogs."
Post by Oddities"I went berserk at that moment because I couldn't
believe what had occurred," he said Saturday.
Well, he's in EXXXCELLENT company here abHOWETS <{}: ~ ) >
Post by OdditiesMachin said he yelled at the driver to stop, but the truck kept going.
Oh? Kinda like HOWE katlat24's DEAD RESCUE KAT was doin?
And kinda like HOWE diddler's DEAD DOGS Danny an Becky
and racetrack silly's DEAD DOG Boomer an meat terrie's DEAD
DOG Mojo and fur paw's DEAD DOG Chile:
LIKE THIS:
Subject: Mojo's last day-a year late
I'll warn you right up front this is not a story that will
end up with you feeling anything good. I know this because
I've been living with this almost a year. The difference to
me right now is that I'm finally able to write about it having
taken this long because I knew I'd have to re-live it once
again and up until now, I couldn't.
Mojo died a year ago on the 21rd of June.
He did not die well.
I won't go into the details that led us to that last day here
as I already have written of that on my LJ. If you do want to
read it just ask and I'll post the URL.
Luke's death in January of the same year is also there and will
show the vast contrast between what happened with each dog and
why Mojo's death has been so difficult for me and pretty much
destroyed any hope of any real closure for my husband and I.
These dogs lived with us daily, close to us in ways that no
other two dogs have been. They'd been through a catostrophic
hurricane with us, they'd both had medical problems we'd
dutifully taken care of for much of their lives and they've
traveled literally, thousands of miles with us. We'd all lived
together in a 26 foot long travel trailer at times and that in
itself is pretty darn intimate in the "living with the dogs"
department.
We could read each other's moods and sometimes didn't even
have to speak to them and they'd know what we wanted just
by their observations of our body language. It was unique,
even more so than our previous canine crews.
We'd only been back in Idaho,in this town for @ 3 months when
we first took Mojo in to a new vet. I liked him a great deal
and was impressed with him. He was an older guy yet very willing
to listen to me and best of all, he and Mojo seemed to hit it off
immediately. He had always been partial to the big dogs, GSDs in
particular.
In the next few days we'd be forced to think the unthinkable
that we all have to when we outlive our dogs but since I'd
been through this three times before I knew all the questions
to ask beforehand. Or so I thought.
The vet and I had discussed in great detail what we'd be doing,
what we'd be using, where my husband and I would be, what we'd
observe, what would be happening at what point in time-everything.
No surprises. Just as peacefully and as perfect as when we'd put
Luke down six months earlier.
As hard as that was, as much as I will always miss him just
as much as all my other beloved dogs, I left there feeling
closure and the deep belief and comfort that I'd done the
right thing by him. I felt as a responsible dog owner that
could proudly look in the mirror and believe I did the right
thing for Luke.
The day we took Mojo in to say goodbye however, we weren't
greeted by the vet I'd met and talked to and gotten to know
but by his associate, whom I'd never met before. In retrospect
I should have stopped everything right then and there but I didn't.
I trusted he'd do things exactly the way the other vet and I
discussed and I believed everything that took place when it
was Luke's turn would happen that day with Mojo.
And I think also that mentally we'd prepared ourselves for it
so well it never occurred to us to go back. We were ready and
Mojo was ready. I've always abided by one simple rule with all
my dogs and that is that when the time is right, when life is
too painful for them to enjoy;
then my promise, my duty is that I will allow them to go with
dignity, quietly and stress free; to a place where there is no
pain. I _owe_ them that at the very least.
That day we sat on the floor with Mojo, his favorite red plaid/
sheepskin blanket under him and hand fed him his favorite treats-
beef, chocolate, whatever. He received his first shot to relax
him and as he drifted off and dozed a bit the vet and his assistant
began to administer the final shot. We expecting the exact same
thing that had happened with Champ, Darcy and Luke...to begin
seeing his breathing slow, his eyes close and his body to fully
relax until a check on his heartbeat showed he was really and
truly gone while listening to the love in our voices to
comfort him. That didn't happen.
He suddenly began thrashing around wildly and screaming loudly
as the vet kept trying to stick the needle in his vein. As out of it as
he was then he still managed to half stand up, still screaming loudly
in pain.
I couldn't move. I was absolutely horrified and paralyzed.
My husband finally found the presence of mind to ask "What
is happening, what's going on?, I thought this was going to
be peaceful"! The vet screamed back at him:
"IT NORMALLY IS! HIS VEINS HAVE COLLAPSED!"
The rational part of me realizes the vet was horrified as well
and the yelling and defensiveness was part of that but the other
part of me, the white hot angry part was so upset that Mojo was
hearing all of this disturbance in our voices I wanted to punch
the guy right in the face.
Instead I grabbed him by his coat collar and pulled his face
close to mine but I couldn't say anything.I was in shock.
My concern for only Mojo kicked in then and my husband flat out
told the vet to leave right now that we needed some time with
Mojo to settle him and calm him down.
The vet left and we spent the next 15 to 20 minutes crooning
to Mojo, petting him and comforting him until he became calm
and dozed again, his head in lap and our arms around him.
The vet returned with a different syringe that contained
something of a different color and I swear to you that his
face was ash white. I have no idea what we looked like but
I have no doubt ours were too.
The final shot was administered and we spent the next ten
minutes with tears streaming down our faces and our bodies
wracked in sobs not because Mojo was gone but because he'd
gone like that and we felt responsible.
The gift of going without pain was ours to give him and we
failed him. And in doing so we also would never receive the
closure we needed as well.
After that, we got up and left him there on the floor with
his blanket and walked out like zombies. I don't throw up
as a rule of thumb unless I have a bad stomach virus because
I hate it so much which means I've thrown up about 3 time in
the past 30 years.
That day, I made it as far as the car door then I threw up
all over the parking lot then again when I got home.
I literally was so overwhelmed by what had just happened and so
emotionally drained like nothing I'd ever experienced before.
To this day my husband and I have never sat down and gone over
the minute details together because we were there-we don't need to.
We have discussed it indirectly, hugged each other and cried buckets
of tears. To be brutally honest I've been more affected by this than
by losing my Mom last fall because she at least went very peacefully,
unlike Mojo. You can be very sure when it's Taffy's time this is
something I will be discussing with the vet and if there's a backup
plan for this sort of thing you can be damn sure it will be in place.
I never ever want to see another animal I love go through this
again in my life. Had I known this would happen, I'd have taken
him out and put a bullet through his head myself to guarantee it
would be painless and quick.
I'd much rather live with that image than the one I carry around.
It took me six months just to be able to drive down that street
without being aware or looking at the window where it happened
and I haven't been back in to talk to that vet whom, I recently
learned, sold the practice to someone else.
I probably should have gone back within a few weeks or so
but now too much time has elapsed for me to feel comfortable
doing that.
I've never heard of anyone else having this happen and maybe
if I had I'd have somehow been able to prevent it but I'll
never know for sure.
So that's what happened last year when Mojo died and it's why
I have had such a difficult time with it as well a big reason
as to why I've disappeared a lot from the newsgroup for long
periods of time.
Often I've logged on here but see that someone has recently
lost a dog and it's just too hard so I quietly leave. I do
want ya'll to know though that my silence doesn't mean I'm
indifferent to your loss, it's just brings back too many bad
memories of my own.
So this part of the healing process has begun, it seems.
RIP Mojo
Post by OdditiesI had no idea, only that you'd gone through a horrible period
losing so many animals. I hope you don't mind me asking some
questions here.
Not at all.
Post by OdditiesDid you have a problem with the veins collapsing such as Mojo did?
No; what happened with Boomer, the world's most loving Siberian, is
that he had lumbosacral stenosis, which is why he was going to the
Bridge in the first place - he'd had discomfort and mobility problems
for some time but still bounded around with his odd rocking horse
gait, happy to be alive, until that Friday evening when his back end
just gave out and he couldn't get up. But our usual vet, the senior
guy, isn't in on Saturdays, and this vet didn't know about his back
problem, and I think the position she put him in on the table
aggravated it. But I also have to say that for some reason, Boomer
was agitated as soon as I put him in the van to go to the vet that
morning, which was very unusual for him. He kind of whined off
and on to the vet and acted as though he were in distress at the vet's
until the euthanasia solution kicked in. It was very unnerving and,
as with you and Mojo, not something I like to remember.
Post by OdditiesDo you feel it was a lack of experience that caused the problem,
the bedside manner or the fact you didn't know him/her very well?
Lack of experience. Her bedside manner was fine; she was very kind.
But she didn't know Boomer, and I guess she didn't look at his chart
or she'd have seen he had back problems, and I didn't think to tell
her until it was too late. Obviously, I wasn't thinking as clearly as
I hopefully do ordinarily, but that's a good reason to never have an
unfamiliar vet euthanize one's animals.
Post by OdditiesAnd most importantly, what do you know of backup plans that can
be put into place in the event it isn't going well initially and
needs to be quickly ended, keeping the tension out of it?
In Boomer's case, I think she was a bit unnerved by his crying (not
screaming), and tried to speed it up. I chose not to say anything
about his back at that point and reposition him because I didn't want
to prolong it. I honestly don't know the answer to your question
about backup plans. We have never had a problem when the senior
vet does the procedure - - unlike many, maybe most vets, he does not
use a sedative beforehand, because he says that slows down the dog's
system and prolongs the process.
Sighthounds have these big old hearts that sometimes want to keep
going, so he tends to use more euthanasia solution than needed, and
I think that what he does is just give a huge dose that would drop a
small horse. The result is *always* that the dog loses consciousness
and dies very quickly. Peaceful each and every time, and the dog
doesn't have the added discomfort of an extra IV or catheter.
Post by OdditiesYou still gave Mojo the gift of release from pain.
Eventually. :(
I know. But does live in and for the moment, and we humans can
take a big lesson from that. A dog would never keep remembering and
torturing itself the way you and your DH and I have. I know Boomer
would forgive those last moments, as he forgave everything else, and
I'm sure Mojo would as well. FWIW, you did the exact right thing by
calling a halt to the procedure and calming everybody, especially
Mojo down.
To lighten the moment, I will tell you what happened when we put
Tasha down on April 28. Tasha was a most awesome Siberian Husky.
She was 14 and we got her from a pound when she was about a year.
To say she was intelligent is like saying Paris Hilton is spoiled. She
once found our greyhound Matty in some woods about 6 miles from
home, where he hid during the 36 hours he was lost - DH said "find
Matty", and damned if she didn't.
She once grabbed the neck of a dog that DH was unsuccessfully
trying to prevent from attacking another dog - just closed her jaws
and held on. Anyway, she'd had osteosarcoma for 22 months and
it showed signs of having spread to her brain, and she had impaired
kidney function as well.
We were dreading this day like never before. Oddly enough, I
believe Tasha was ready. She was always our alpha, a supremely
confident dog with a great deal of pride. On the table, her front
paw shook and DH - - she was always his girl - - held it.
As always with this vet, it was very smooth and peaceful (he
particularly liked her, said she reminded him of that female l
ead dog on Eight Below) and she was gone very quickly. Just
as the vet and tech left the room and closed the door, leaving
DH and me alone with Tasha, her head came up, facing the
door, and her tongue stuck out.
DH couldn't help laughing - said she'd gotten the last word.
Yes, we know it was just a reflex, but it was somehow fitting.
I hope you don't mind me asking: have you ever discussed this with
another vet? If Mojo's reaction was caused by his veins collapsing
(and I've heard of that but not heard of it causing that result), why
was the vet able to complete the procedure?
Did he have something in the second syringe to dilate the veins?
Mustang Sally
-------------------
AND LIKE THIS:
Re: Aaaghhh! Another horrible vet experience.
"FurPaw" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:-***@comcast.com...
And pretty awful for both the human and pet to have to go through.
I haven't wanted to write about it, but Chile's euthanasia went
badly. The vet who was working the morning we took her in
is new and inexperienced. She tried to put a catheter into Chile's
veins, twice, but the veins both collapsed. At that point I insisted
on a sedative, and so she gave her a big honking dose of Ace,
which did knock her out. (Not for future: INSIST on a sedative
first. Even though it hadn't been necessary for two prior chihuahuas.
In your case, even the sedative didn't seem to work - bigger dose
needed in an animal with high adrenaline levels?) After 20 minutes
the euthanasia injection had slowed but not stopped Chile's heart,
and she ended up giving Chile an injection directly in the heart.
Chile was unconscious through all of this. Hubster and I weren't,
although we managed to hold it together; letting out the silent
scream would have just made everything worse for all concerned.
The on-call vet also felt awful, and was practically in tears
herself. They didn't charge us for the euthanasia, and I didn't
have to ask."
----------------------
OR you could just SHOOT IT.
LIKE THIS:
Re: Question About Euthanasia - Not For Faint of Heart
"diddy" <***@nospam.diddy.net> wrote
in message news:***@216.196.97.142...
Only if you are willing to be trolled. Using firearms
is not the most palatable way to put a dog down, but
sometimes it IS the most humane. For instance. I live
10 miles from a vet not an unreasonable distance for
routine care.
But one day, I was outside the fence in the company of
my dog, when the phone rang inside the house. I ran in
the door, and it was my dad. I said, "Dad, the dog did
not come in with me, I'll call you back"
Not aware that my dog had crossed the road to visit the
children getting off the school bus across the street,
I assumed her to be in her usual haunts, out in the back
pasture or barns.
I called her to come, and called her directly into the
path of a speeding car. She got hit directly on the
license plate and was thrown about 30 yards.
I knew exaclty what had happened, when I heard the
sickening thud, and her screams.
I rushed to her, and saw the blood streaming from her
ears and nose. her mangled little body irreparable. I
knew she was going to die. She quit screaming when I
went to her side. I went to move her, and she started
screaming even louder.
I knew moving her was only causing her greater agony.
She was in enough, and the outcome was not going to be
any better.
I decided to not put her through any more, and I left
her screaming, went in the house, got the handgun, and
returned. I gave her a tearful hug and apology. And I
did the hardest thing I've ever done in my whole life.
I took her pain, and made it my own. She immediately
slumped and went limp, and was silent. Quick. Taking
her to the vet was the poorer alternative.
in later years, I released a dog from the pound. She
was dumped for biting. Knowing that most of the time,
a dog that bites is the child's fault, I brought her
home to see if she was salvageable in a childless home.
She at least deserved an evaluation. She seemed fine,
then the following day, with no provocation, she lunged
for my throat. This was an unprovoked attack, and I knew
there was probably something physically wrong with the
dog (perhaps a brain tumor?) and regardless, she was a
HUGE liability risk, and I could never place her.
So I took her to the vet for euthanasia.
The vet kept sticking her for 15 minutes, and it was the
ugliest screaming death I ever witnessed.... until I had
my old 18 year old companion diagnosed with systemic
organ failure. Her old body wore out. I took her to the vet.
Apparently poor circulation caused her not to use the
euthanasia shot properly. The vet kept giving her one
shot after another, and she dies a slow agonizing death,
screaming, and looking at me in betrayal and dismay.
I wanted to grab her from the vet, and take her home,
and shoot her. It would have been over faster.
Then I took Danny in for Euthanasia. The best dog I've
ever had. The vet stuck him, and he went down HARD,
screaming.
He screamed for about 10 minutes.
If a vet was going to get a dog right, this one he HAD
to, and he didn't. I was furious. I'm forever sorry I
took him to the vet, but the violence of shooting him
was just unnacceptable to me.
These are THREE different vets.
---------------------
HOWEver, that's not as CONvienient as BINACA beth's and
lois edward's DEAD DOGS Kavik an Duke screamin an barkin
themselves to death when they was left for boarding.
LIKE THIS:
Duke 2001-2008
We took Duke, Jake, and Tazz to be boarded overnight, they have
boarded there many times before, but last week something went
wrong. Duke suffered some sort of stroke. He was holding his head
tilted to the right and showed a distinct weakness on the right side,
A lot of falling and unable to keep his balance, as well as seizure
activity and drooling. We watched and worked with him all weekend,
but he became increasingly disoriented to the point of not recognizing
where or who we were. Sadly we came to the realization that the
wonderful clown-dog we loved was gone. We prayed and took him to
the vet together. He really was a wonderful, funny, clever and loving
dog. We miss him.
Lois E
------------------
lois' sister agrees Duked DROPPED DEAD from STRESS:
I'm sorry to hear about your dog. I doubt that anybody gave him
anything, he probably just stressed and his blood pressure went
wild, causing some kind of vascular malfunction. You know how
they get, panting and all and if his heart had any glitches which
can be so common in the big guys, it just went bad.
------------------
Yeah. It kinda runs in the family.
LIKE THIS:
HOWEDY lyin lois edwards you pathetic miserable
stinkin rotten lyin animal murderin punk thug coward
active accute chronic life long incurable malignant
maliciHOWES MENTAL CASE,
Post by OdditiesI have found some his posts to be rather
entertaining.....and I do need some laughter these days!
Grin! Chuckle! Like when he wrote that he
was glad my dog died, LOL!
Or when he said that my daughter was probably dead in
the aftermath of Katrina....boy, what a hoot,
I figgered youz darlin daughter MUSTA been DEAD otherWIZE
she'd of called you after a few weeks to let you know she was O.K.
Even if she'da got throwed in jail for lootin, she COULDA called you:
From: ***@MuchoMail.Com
Date: 25 Apr 2006 18:03:20 -0700
Subject: Re: Vogon Spam Generator?
HOWEDY lyin lois edwards,
Post by OdditiesMeanwhile, here in Idontknow, Mojo and Taffy send their
regards to rpdb reminding everyone in some parts of the
country it's still too cold to clip your dog. Also, Mojo appears
to still enjoy and remember snow, if yesterday's walk
across the parking lot IN THE SNOW IN MID-APRIL was
any indication. Jeesh! Snow. Yuk.
Terri
Terri....it is so good to hear from you...
Yeah. meat terri doesn't post here abHOWETS nodoGdameneDmooreE
Like you and most of your koehler Cabal <{); ~ ) >
Post by OdditiesI've spent all winter worrying about you and yours.
Yeah. Like HOWE you done over your kid who was missin
for months and you and detective husband gary edwards had
to do a internet search to find her alive an well <{): ~ ) >
Guess she didn't think MUMZIE needed to know she was O.K.
followin the hurricane hittin her city <{); ~ ) >
Post by OdditiesYou're back in Idaho?
Yeah. meat terry accidentally posted her valuable kibo
Vogon Generator to The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Forums on R.P.D.B.
Post by OdditiesKatrina wiped out my daughter's home,
Yeah. You didn't hear from her for like six months. Remember?
Post by Odditiesand I've always wondered how you fared.
You coulda just posted over to alt.religion.kibology and
you'd have FHOWEND her just like HOWE you done
your darlin little girl six months after Katrina <{): ~ ) >
Post by OdditiesGlad to know you and the dogs and DH are okay.
Yeah. Seems your darlin daughter lost her internet connection
for like ten days or so. HOWE COME detective daddy didn't care?
Post by OdditiesI don't visit the groups too often....
Right. That's on accHOWENT of every time you do The
Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard EMBARRASSES
YOU TO DEATH just like HOWE he does all the rest of
your lyin dog abusing punk thug coward active acute chronic
long term incurable mental case pals who likeWIZE don't
post here abHOWETS nodoGdameneDmooreE <{): ~ ) >
Post by Odditieswork and more work, life, kids and showing
horses have a tendency to get in the way.
Yeah. Remember when you shot your neighbor's dog
on accHOWENT of you couldn't train your own dogs
to protect your horses and goats <{); ~ ) >
Post by OdditiesGary's retiring this summer
Whazzup with that? Did they run HOWETA sissys for
him to push arHOWEND in handcuffs with the boys
downtown?
Post by Odditiesand it will be nice to have a life again..........
Yeah. Maybe Ret. lt gary can let you HOWETA the closet
NHOWE an again? It'll be just like HOWE it was in the
good ol days <{): ~ ) >
You can kibbitz over on kibo as much as you'd LIKE.
Post by OdditiesYours Lois and the furry bunch
"( I know this first-hand...when my oldest daughter got caught
stealing a carton of cigarettes from a store, we arranged for part
of her community service to be helping out at the Humane Society...
and Dad made her work at the vets, cleaning cages, for nothing too.
Oh the shame of it. Our child...a thief...she now helps run an animal
rescue in La.) So with a little effort, you should be able to get her
spayed. JMHO....." Lois E.
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.breeds
From: "Gary & lois Edwards" <***@bmi.net>
Date: 1999/09/03
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Well, with Bobbi, it was obvious something was really wrong,
very early in life.....and at puberty things got worse. We went
the rounds of Doctors, both medical and psychiatric.....and there
were lots of theories.....ranging from, (at 8 years old) switching
her over to a total fruits and vegetable diet with no meats or sugars,
to wanting to drug her senseless, to one guy who wanted me to
institutionalize her at puberty....
(I didn't) Because of my own problems with depression (much,
much milder than hers) I knew what it was.....it was trying to
find a course of moderation to treat her. One of her problems was,
she'd get to feeling better, and then she'd refuse to take her
meds....
then she'd get nutso and run off.
Adolescence was ......plainly....hell.
Then a relative, one of Gary's, not mine, decided that we weren't
treating Bobbi right, and gave her bus money to go to California....
.yes, you heard right.....wacko kid, 15 years old.....sent to
relatives
in California WITH OUT MY KNOWLEDGE OR PERMISSION.....
I never will forgive the relative...she stayed with an aunt about a
week,
until someone told her no, and then she hit the streets. That's why
Gary
and I are raising our Grandsons....
So, as you can guess....I'm VERY familiar with manic/depression.
Sorry about the rant....I'm tired, I guess." Lois E.
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
From: "Gary & lois Edwards" <***@bmi.net>
Date: 1999/09/29
Subject: Re: Dear Marilyn Re. Ness
Marilyn....you are being deliberately obtuse....did you hear
anyone chime in with enthusiasm for whipping their dog
after that cowardly Anon. wrote those articles?
*(The QUOTES from your koehler / monks TRAININ books)
No you did not.... Did you hear anyone endorse drowning
their dog.....no you did not.
***(You mean, LIKE THIS?:"It Can Be Really Funny To
Watch Shove His Nose Into The Water; Hold Him There
Till He Is Sure He's Drowning "I LOVE This One. It's
VERY Effective, It Absolutely Doesn't Interfere In Your
Relationship With Your Dog, And Is EASY And QUICK,"
tommy sorenson aka not so handsome, not so happy, not so
gentle, not so manly, jackass, not even jack morrison aka
joey finnochiarrio aka howie lipshitz aka BIG DADDY aka
DOGMAN, a.k.a. PUSSYMAN, you pathetic miserable
stinkin anonymHOWES malignant maliciHOWES lyin
dog child an spHOWES abusing punk thug coward active
accute chronic life long incurable mental case and paranoid
homophobe, misogynist, puppy miller and shock collar salesman.
This same tactic is taught by cindymooreon on her "faq" page on
k9web, lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn at their Bay Area GSD
shelters, and lying frosty dahl, marquis de "read koehler for content"
shaw..., professor "scruff shake" dermer, professora "chin chuck
absolutely doesn't mean slap" gingold, ron hardin, and much, much
moore RECOMMEND)***. j;~}
lying lois e. CONtinues:
You have chosen to take at face value, someone who is so cowardly
that they would post the most traumatic thing that could happen to
a mother and child, and spread it out in an childish attempt to get
even......
***(KEY WORD: QUOTED)***
now THAT person, you believe......the rest of us who DON'T
whip, hang, drown, or otherwise abuse our dogs....us, you don't
believe.... your line of reasoning is truly astounding. As has been
said before....Lady, you are some piece of work!!" Lois E.
Post by OdditiesEven better, when he said that the neighbors dog who
dug under my fence and slaughted a pet goat, that he,
(the dog) was just getting breakfast. Hoo yeah, good times!!
YOU MURDERED IT WHILE IT WAS EATIN, NOT CHASIN IT,
on accHOWENTA YOU COULD, just like HOWE diddler's dh shot
her neighbor's dog for eatin her GARBAGE. Your own dogs would
have done the same thing <{}: ~ ( >
From: "Gary & lois Edwards" <***@bmi.net>
Date: 1999/09/08
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Sorry I seemed to be gossiping about you, and I'm glad you are
feeling better. It would be nice if everyone could do it without
medication. You must be the exception to the rule.
Lois E.
MOTHER AND CHILD REUNION
"KUCKOO!! CUCKOO!!!"
MOTHER (LOIS E.) 22 YEARS on TRICYCLICS,
DAUGHTER BIPOLAR...
YOU DO THE MATH
"What's really terrific,
is now days you can say proudly,
'I take anti-depressives'"
From: Gary & lois Edwards (***@bmi.net)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Date: 1999/09/02
BEEN ON TRICYCLICS FOR ABOUT 22 YEARS
"I don't take lithium, but I've been on trycyclics
for about 22 years. Been there, done that, have
the t-shirt to prove it. What's really terrific,
is now days you can say proudly,
"I take anti-depressives". Back when I started
taking them it was seen as something shameful.
If you cut your leg off, and were lying there with
a bleeding stump, you'd never let the word
depressed, pass your lips, or the doc's would say,
"You're depressed, on medication? Well, can't have
any pain meds.....you could become addicted."
The good old days. I actually had a Great Aunt who's
father locked her in her room back in the twenties
because she was simple. A shame that medication
probably would have helped her live a normal life.
No Denna, I was just saying with Darlene's
personality, she has a way of making grandiose
plans when at the top of her manic cycle....as
does my daughter. I wasn't saying that anyone
with problems could be counted on to be
irresponsible."
Lois E.
"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."
Lynn K.
LYNN K. and LOIS E, and a BiLateral, BiPolar
conversation on Mental problems. LYNN AND LOIS
Almost 50 years on mental illness medications combined
Post by OdditiesBut I think what Lois was referring to
was the fact that Darlene actually
stated at some point that she was
bipolar--and, IIRC, that meds did not work
for her--so she was prone to major-league
ups and downs and sudden
enthusiasms..
"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."
Lynn K.
---------------------------
LYNN K. and the UNQUIET MIND
From: Lynn Kosmakos (***@home.com)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Date: 1999/09/03
Post by OdditiesI know I am totally off topic here, but have you read
"The Unquiet Mind"?
Yeah. It's interesting, but kind of
watered down for the mass market, if
you know what I mean. There's really
quite a lot of good work out there and
decent research. Thank God.
Lynn K.
50 Years On Mental Illness Medications "I Actually Had A Great
Aunt Who's Father Locked Her In Her Room Back In The
Twenties Because She Was Simple," lois edwards, ACTIVE
INCURABLE MENTAL PATIENT.
WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft
I TOO HAVE A BIPOLAR MOOD DISORDER
(MANIC DEPRESSION) I ALSO CARE ABOUT
DOGS COMMUNITY IS AN EVOLUTIONARY THING
From: Chris Kosmakos (***@netcom.com)
Subject: Re: complaints and goodbye
Lisa K. Baird (***@infinet.com) wrote:
:
: Sheesh, if everyone would start taking responsibility
: for their own actions, wouldn't life be grand?
"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-
depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium
and 50 mg of Zoloft every day. I, also, care
about dogs and use this forum to learn more,
while happily sharing pertinent information
I have learned. But if I were ever to post
such sh*t, I would hope that every other
reader of this group would be rightfully
outraged."
"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the
easily understood rules and contributing to in
constructive ways."
Lynn K.
I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM
================
Post by OdditiesHe and friends chased the truck for 2 œ blocks before catching up
with it. Ginger's slight body was later pulled from the sweeper.
Well, that's neater than just STABBIN IT like HOWE paul e. schoen done.
Post by OdditiesThe city Department of Sanitation called the
death "a rare and unfortunate accident."
Yeah. We get a lotta "unfortunate accidents" here abHOWETS.
Post by OdditiesA heartbroken Machin questioned whether the driver was
observing proper procedures, saying the truck seemed to
barreling through the street at an unsafe speed.
Yeah? You mean, LIKE THIS?:
From: J1Boss (***@aol.com)
Subject: Re: Allstate won't insure my house due to dangerous breed
Date: 1999/01/11
My homeowner's policy DID pay over $2300 to cover
automobile damage for the person who killed my dog
recently.
My rates don't change, I'm not dropped,
my dogs weren't questioned.
Perhaps there is more to the "judgement" criteria than meets the eye.
Janet Boss<BR>
Best Friends Dog Obedience<BR>
"Nice Manners for the Family Pet"
"Read your question for the obvious answer"
Post by OdditiesMy insurance company paid over $2300 to fix someone's
car after my dog was hit and killed. If the car had hit a deer,
the car owner's insurance would have had to pay. The leash
law in my county meant that even without INTENTIONAL off leash
circumstances, the car driver had a right to compensation from
my homeowner's insurance, even though he was very much speeding.
Janet Boss
Best Friends Dog Obedience
"Nice Manners for the Family Pet"
Voted "Best of Baltimore 2001" - Baltimore Magazine
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
There you were bragging to somebody else about how good your
allstate insurance was. That your rates didn't change, even though
you paid somebody $2300 for killing your dog.
You were happy about that.
Happy you didn't have to pay for it out of your own pocket.
Feelin' pretty good about yourself and your choice in insurers.
You were happy your rates didn't change. You were happy you
weren't dropped. You were happy your (remaining) dogs weren't
"questioned" by your all powerful insurance company which you
work so hard to remain in good favor of.
Janet Boss
AND LIKE THIS?:
"My Lab Mix Died In 104 Degree Heat, But He Chose
To Be Outside In That Brutal Heat" janet boss, Idiot,
Thug, Dog Killer, Liar, Mental Case:
From: J1Boss (***@aol.com)
Subject: Re: Sudden Doggie Death, please help!
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.health
Date: 2001-07-20 15:03:09 PST
Post by OdditiesI am desperately searching the web trying to help me
find out why my 1 yr old lab died all of the sudden
yesterday. If you can help me w/ recognizing any
of her symptoms please let me know.
I left yesterday at around
2:00pm for an appt and
Post by Odditiesshe was great. When I returned by 6:00pm she
was lying on the ground, unable to move, making
groaning sounds, throwing up and having diarrhea.
It almost seemed as if she was convulsing but since
I'm far from a dog expert I had no clue what was
going on. Also her gums we're slightly bleeding
w/ a funny color to them.
We live in Texas where it was 100 degrees yesterday
so I was thinking that she was too hot or something
so I washed her down w/ the water hose and tried to
give her ice cubes, nothing helped!
Sounds like heat stroke. Why was she outside in that kind of heat?
Post by OdditiesAround 7:30pm she had about 3 hacking
spells then stopped breathing.
And hour and a half after you found her in distress? Yikes!
Post by OdditiesI couldn't have driven her to the vet because she was
unable to walk and I had no way of picking her up.
Call a spouse, a neighbor, the vet, the police - SOMEONE could help!
Post by OdditiesIf any of this sounds like something you are familiar
w/ could you please let me know what was going on
w/ her.
Thanks for any help,
It does. My lab mix died 13 years ago in 104 degree heat.
I felt very guilty that I didn't come home just 1/2 hour earlier
from work to MAKE him come in from the heat. He did
have that choice though.
He could have been indoors in air conditioning via a
dog door, but chose to be outside in that brutal heat.
My neighbor said he was barking at a passerby just 1/2
hour before I came home (a favorite activity). It was a
horrible day, but had he been alive and in distress when
I came home, I would have stopped passing cars if I
hadn't been able to lift him myself, if it meant getting
him to the vet to LIVE!
He was 15.5 years old - his time was going to be up one
way or another, but the day still haunts me 13 years later.
No dogs since have been given a choice
but to stay in the air conditioning.
I don't KNOW that his was heat stroke, it could have
been his heart or a severe stroke. At his age it was
going to be something. Heat had to have been a
contributing factor though.
Rule of thumb - never own a dog you can't lift or
figure out how to lift. Life may depend on it.
Janet Boss
Best Friends Dog Obedience
"Nice Manners for the Family Pet"
"Second-hand dogs AREN'T second-rate"
-------------------------
Post by OdditiesThe heartbroken Machin, 57, choked up as he described
losing Ginger. With his children grown, he said, "These
two dogs, they're my life."
Well, he can always get a other WON:
Re: What lengths and expenses do we go to?
"Paul E. Schoen" <***@smart.net> wrote in message news:484f55aa$0$13387$***@news.coretel.net...
I am thankful that I have not had to deal with this on a personal
level, so it is hard to grasp the totality of the situation. Your list
seems very reasonable and logical, and your last item is a difficult
one to accept.
When you have had a pet for a long time, and deep bonds have
grown, the gut reaction is that no cost is too much to try to extend
life for even a little longer. But when you consider that there are
many young, healthy, adorable animals in shelters or at AC,
scheduled to be euthanized for no other reason than lack of room
and no one to take them, it seems it would make the decision easier.
But it's never really easy.
<SNIP sad story of murderin dogs>
I'm sorry to hear of yet another pet in your life with such problems, but
when you have many animals, it is a fact of life. I'm sure you will make
the best decision for all concerned, and you should not feel bad if cost is
a factor, especially if you will be able to save another otherwise doomed
animal.
Paul and Muttley
-----------------------------
Subject: Dog Dies Peacefully In His Sleep At Home
HOWEDY paul e. schoen you pathetic miserable stinkin
rotten lyin animal murderin punk thug coward active acute
chronic life-long incurable malignant maliciHOWES
MENTAL CASE,
Post by OdditiesPeacefully in his sleep.
There are rabbits galore to chase over that rainbow bridge, Homeboy.
Our sincere condolences.
INDEED? Ain't it a shame she didn't have the pleasure
of MURDERIN IT at the vets like HOWE you an your
pals PREFER?
Post by OdditiesWords are not enough...
Would "AS IT SHOULD BE", be enough, paulie?
Post by OdditiesPaul and Muttley
Here's HOWE COME Muttley WENT INSANE and your
DEAD KAT Photon RAN HOWET on you an GOT DEAD:
"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him a
stern correction" --Janet Boss
Here's janet's CUSTOME MADE pronged spiked pinch choke collar:
http://tinyurl.com/5m6ppt
"J1Boss" <***@aol.com> wrote in message news:***@mb-m18.aol.com...
He was next to me and I could see his neck
muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
Janet Boss
Post by OdditiesI can't imagine needing anything higher
than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
dog like a Lab.
An INSENSITIVE DOG???
Post by OdditiesI can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.
Do you think the citronella collar is CRUEL
cause the SMELL LINGERS after the dog's
been sprayed in the face and the dog won't
know HOWE COME IT was MACED?
Post by OdditiesMy dogs are not human children wearing fur- they are DOGS.
I don't have anything against electronic bark collars, but they
should be used in conjunction with actually working at training
your dog(s).
They're DUMB ANIMALS these MENTALLY ILL LYING
DOG ABUSERS HURT INTIMIDATE and MURDER.
-------------------
LIKE THIS:
Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <***@smart.net> wrote
It is a shame that Muttley will probably be put
down (his appointment is next Wednesday),
Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <***@smart.net> wrote
Hello everyone:
If you have followed some of my posts, you know
something about the ongoing story of Muttley, the
large GSD/Chow dog I have been trying to adopt
or place in a better home.
I will add a bit more history later in this post.
Last Tuesday, toward the end of Janet's obedience
class, Muttley and I had just finished fairly successfully
performing a sit/stay/come routine, and then he was
sitting by my side.
The final routine was to be a "down", which Muttley
has had some difficulty with, and frankly I have not
had the time to work with him much on that.
I was kneeling at his side, trying to hold his collar
while pushing his front legs down to the position,
while he resisted. Suddenly he lunged, knocking
me over onto the parking lot, and I lost grip of the
leash as I reflexively broke my fall.
Muttley took the opportunity to attack a young black
male Lab to my left, and it was a very brutal attack.
Janet and the instructors tried to gain control, and as
soon as I could get to my feet I grabbed the leash and
pulled him off.
That was the end of the class, and the other dog,
Bernie, was taken to an animal hospital for treatment.
When everyone had left, Janet counseled me about
what should be done about Muttley.
She said this was more than ordinary aggression,
and only intensive (and expensive) one on one
training would have any chance at working, and
in any case, he was not suited to group training.
She advised me that Muttley could be dangerous,
and she recommended that he be euthanized.
"They can't all be saved".
<snip>
--------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <***@smart.net> wrote
<snip>
If I did not have to worry about my cat, I would
probably keep him, and I am certain I could avoid
any more dangerous episodes. I probably would
not have taken him to obedience classes at this time
if that was not such a difficult issue, and if people
here had not essentially shamed me into doing so.
Then he would only be a bratty dog with a mind of
his own, but he would not have been identified as
dangerous.
--------------------------
BWEEEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
Here's HOWE COME:
Here's janet's REAL LIFE IN PERSON "student" paul:
#2 - 6/05/07
Post by OdditiesWhen I was training him under Janet's supervision
I was instructed to give it a ? firm yank as a correction.
I advised you to use a prong collar, not give firm
yanks on a chain choke collar. I hate the things.
She was able to get his attention with
just a quick tug, but I had to yank on it
hard enough to lift him off his feet to get
him to respond. Looking back now, I think
it was based on his fear, which he had for
her (as an unknown), but not for me
(whom he had learned to trust).
He wasn't afraid of me. He knew I was a
confident trainer. Fear has no place in dog
training, as I told you THEN.
Janet
It seems to me that applying stern corrections, by
popping a choker chain, prong collar, or whatever,
is a way to ensure compliance by instilling a fear
of further punishment.
Sure, if it is administered very consistently
by a confident trainer, the dog soon learns
to obey. There was no positive reinforcement,
so what remains is negative.
Also, I recall the time you were going to show me
how I could get Muttley to take his rawhide treat
from me without lunging for it. When you offered
it to him, he refused to take it. This IMHO is likely
a fear behavior.
Things have changed a lot since then, and I have
learned a lot, and Muttley has settled down quite
a bit. I probably still give him too much freedom
to think on his own, but that's just my way of
doing things, and that's probably not going to
change much. He may never win an obedience
medal, but I don't think he is dangerously out
of control, either.
Paul and Muttley
"I thought I was told that the way to get the dog to go
down was to make him sit and then step onthe leash.
That was awkward and didn't seem to work.
I will confess that I only tried the "down" position
once or twice at home, and I also often used it
instead of "Off" when I wanted him to stop
jumping on me or elsewhere I didn't want him to be.
I had to give him corrections every few seconds,
and also just about kick him, to keep him at my
left side.
Muttley is really a very sweet and loving dog, but
he needs more socialization with other dogs. However,
it is very likely that I will have him put down in a week."
Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <***@smart.net> wrote
It is a shame that Muttley will probably be put
down (his appointment is next Wednesday),
-----------------------
HERE'S HOWE COME:
Subject: Re: redirected aggression
Date: 4/11/07
"Janet Boss" <***@bestfriendsdogobedience.com> wrote in message news:janet-***@news.individual.net...
It seems I have been dealing with this a bit lately.
Dog to dog and dog to person,, with dogs who are
obviously overstimulated by what's in front of them.
What's in front of them varies from people at the door
to dogs in their path or directly in their face. The dogs
in question all have very poor self control.
I have dog(s) with not-so-great-natural self control,
so it's something we constantly work on. We don't
have redirected stuff going on, because we have enough
obedience to avoid it.
While I know that's the big answer for the dogs in
question as well, I'm curious what things people have
found useful to redirect/focus/gain attention from
drivey dogs or just very distracted of over-the-top dogs.
We're having success with my recommendations, but I'm
always open to something novel that may be the hot ticket.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
BWEEEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA~!~!~!
From: ***@aol.com (J1Boss)
Date: 2000/10/06
Subject: Re: Shina Inu Experts : Please help!
Post by OdditiesThis is a young puppy, hardly a threat to a kat.
See? They just cannot conceive of a cat, for example, scratching
out the eyes of a young puppy because it didn't want to be bothered
by an over-exurburant puppy (are there any other kinds?).
********** Jerry's never met a puppy, He's never met a
RETRIEVER PUPPY, that's pretty clear. I have a wonderfully
exhuberant retriever puppy - love every minute of it.
My 17 year old cat, doesn't have quite the same appreciation.
Sometimes, Franklin licks his ears and Robie enjoys it. Other
times, Franklin thinks Robie's another puppy and Robie does
not enjoy that. Without my supervision, confinement is only
sensible (of course).
I've got Jer-Jer kill-filed, but the glimpes at his posts, through
re-posts, are good indications that nothing has changed.
Post by OdditiesBut if a crate is a "barrier" to training a puppy, then what
must the walls of a SCHOOL ROOM be, eh?
*********** and don't forget cribs for crawling babies, safety
gates, doors, etc. Let's just open up the houses and let everyone
run amok!
Post by OdditiesLadies and gentlemen, he literally counts on many of you
being too damn stupid or ignorant to see just how little he
actually knows about dogs, puppies, cats, etc.
Don't let him, eh?
Dogman
************** It's so difficult for the newbies, since so many
of the people who DO have good advice, have killfiled him.
Tired of refuting slander and general inaccuracies in his "they're
all bad, I'm good" rants (without any actual training advice, as
usual) is a reality for most.
Are there actually people, besides Marilyn, who believe him?
Janet Boss
Best Friends Dog Obedience
"Nice Manners for the Family Pet"
THAT was your pal DOGMAN, another pathetic
miserable stinkin rotten lyin anonymHOWES coward.
Not so handsome, not so gentle, not so manly, not so
happy jackass, not even morrison aka dogman a.k.a.
BIG DADDY, a.k.a. tommy sorenson, sez:
"I don't know how big you are, kiddo, so this may
not be as easy for you as it is for me, but use
a little "knee action," that is, as the dog goes
charging by you, just give the dog a little bop
with your knee and shin. Yep, really lean into it.
Even knock her over, if you can, but make sure to
make her think twice about rushing past you again -
- which is exactly what you want her to do.
Don't bother with scolding her, she'll get the message.
If it happens again, just REPEAT the knee action.
When she steps on your toes, just pick up your foot
abruptly and nudge her with your knee. Again, no
scolding is necessary here, so you don't have to
worry about her "over-reacting."
I don't think this is necessarily a lack of respect
for you, just a lack of training. That is, she just
needs *more* of it."
"My objective is always to find a way that WORKS.
And if it is DANGEROUS behavior that I'm trying
to modify, behavior than can get the dog KILLED,
I will resort to ANYTHING to save him.
A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G.
Okay. Call me a cruel, inhumane, abusive bastard
if you want to, but it doesn't affect me at all.
When you've saved the lives of as many dogs as I
have, you'll learn that that's the only thing that
really matters. Saving lives and making dogs become
good citizens
At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a
dog. A swat on the rump or a check to the chin does
*not* constitute a "beating."
=====================
From: ***@i1.net (Dogman)
Date: 1999/01/15
Subject: Re: Another mouthy lab
Get this book:
"The Art of Raising A Puppy," by the Monks of New Skete
If you can't find it locally, you can obtain it
through my Web site (see below).
You'll need it for more than just the usual puppy
"mouthing" problems, anyway.
And good luck with your Lab puppy!
--
Dogman
------------------------
From: ***@deltaville.net (Michael Erskine)
Date: 12 Aug 2004 10:09:05 -0700
Subject: My GSD bit me.
The question:
I have a four year old male GSD. He growls
at me sometimes. When he growls at me he
stares me in the face and lays his ears back.
The New Skete books say that the dog should not be
allowed to do that. They suggest shaking down the
dog by grabing the dog on the sides of his neck and
picking him off his front feet, then giving the dog the
same sort of treatment the dog would give another if
it were challenging him.
Namely getting in the dogs face and letting
the dog know you are the alpha dog.
Well, my dog bit me clearly he felt that I was not
convincing enough or he bit me out of fear.
Anyone got ideas on what to do with this dog that might
help him to decide that he wants to follow and that he
has nothing to fear from me?
----------------------
From: Charlie Wilkes <***@users.easynews.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 17:21:14 GMT
Subject: Re: My GSD bit me.
You need to improve your acting skills. Get a werewolf
suit with blood-drenched fangs and claw gloves and THEN
go after your dog.
Knock the shit out of him and don't be afraid to crack
some ribs. Then yank the mask off and shout "SURPRISE!
IT'S ME!" I guarantee you and your dog will have a new
relationship based on mutual respect.
Keep in mind that the monks of New Skete
were pre-Lon-Chaney.
Charlie
-----------------------
Here's janet's REAL LIFE IN PERSON heelper:
"J1Boss" <***@aol.com> wrote in message
On 6 Feb 2006 17:41:08 GMT, Mary Healey
Post by OdditiesDoes that include tone of voice? Some tools are easier
to ban than others.
yes - screaming banshees are told to shut up! And I
always have to remind spouses that they may NOT do the
"honey - you're supposed to be doing it like THIS"......
--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
From: sionnach (***@email.msn.com)
Subject: Re: Correct use of prong collar
Date: 2001-05-05 13:03:14 PST
Post by OdditiesWho said that? I would never do or recommend
that, and neither would most of the regulars
on here.
Sally Hennessey
I've posted my entire quote, since Patch failed
to do so. Take it out of context and you'd think
I was flinging puppies across the room!
here's what I said (keep in mind that we're
A small scruff shake is appropriate if he's very persistant.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Um, may I suggest a re-wording that might make
it clearer- given that "scruff shake" is too easily
misinterpreted as "pick the puppy up by the scruff
of the neck and shake the puppy in the air"?
I think I'd phrase it something like "if the puppy
is very persistant, it can be appropriate to take
hold of the loose skin at the back of the neck and
give a slight shake to the *skin*".
Janet's not talking about actually shaking
the puppy, which I think we ALL agree is
abusive."
----------------------
"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness," mustang sally.
"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me.
I volunteered as assistant to the euthanasia
tech at our local shelter for a while, and
I know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted
animals.
This however has nothing at all to do with
responsible breeders, because responsible
breeders don't contribute to that problem,"
Mustang Sally.
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001
Subject: Re: shock collars
Sally Hennessey <***@ncweb.com> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...
Aside from being incredibly offensive and self-
righteous, this post shows and absence of knowledge
in the differences in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps
a lack of ability to perceive same.
The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to
whom corrections and discomfort, even pain, were
unimportant does not mean that such dogs do not exist.
What it means is that you don't know as much about
dogs as you think you do, and you surely don't know
a damn thing about Harlan or anyone else's dog here.
I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with
one of her housemates; that dog had no fear or
anything, and pain incurred during a fight meant
nothing to her.
I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories. The fact that
you, Alison, continue to say things to people such as
what you said to Theresa about causing her dog to
suffer (at least I guess that's what you meant by
"you cause your dog suffers" - - must be the King's
English you guys talk about over there) means that
you are an ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person
who is not worth further notice.
Sally Hennessey
"Sally Hennessey" <***@ncweb.com> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...
Nope. No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.
I'm starting to see some similarities here.
Sally Hennessey
---------------
Here's janet's PARTNER:
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context,"
Post by OdditiesWhat I have said- repeatedly - is that he
took posts from two different people,
No, there was ONLY WON quote.
Post by Odditiestook pieces of them out of context,
Of curse. QUOTED. You wanna see it in context?
Post by Odditiescobbled them together,
No. There was WON DIRECT QUOTE.
"Neatly," and "Smartly."
Post by Odditiesand a fake signature.
"sinofabitch" instead of sionnach.
Post by OdditiesWhich is exactly what he did.
INDEEDY. That's HOWE COME you deny it.
Post by OdditiesThe actual quote is misleading
That so?
Post by Odditieswhen taken out of context,
We'd been talkin abHOWET beatin the dog with a shoe...
Post by Odditiesand Jerry's faked "quote"
The WON sinofabitch totally DENIES.
Post by Odditiesis downright meaningless.
Only if you're a MENTAL CASE.
Here's Jerry's version
"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.
Here's yours:
"I dropped the leash, threw my
right arm over the Lab's shoulder,
grabbed her opposite foot with my
left hand, rolled her on her side,
leaned on her, said "GRRRR!" and
nipped her ear.
--Sara Sionnach
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
See?
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "CourteHOWES Canine."
"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?
When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first
time, spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth
and walk away. The dog won't be too thrilled with
this but just ignore him and continue your normal
behavior."
--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"CourteHOWES Canines"
"The day may come when the rest of the animal creation
may acquire those rights
which never could have been withholden from them
but by the hand of tyranny.
The question is not can they REASON,
nor can they TALK,
but can they SUFFER?" -
- Jeremy Bentham
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised
for the good of its victims,
may be the most oppressive.
Those who torment us for our own good
will torment us without end,
for they do so with the approval of
their own conscience." -
- C.S. Lewis.
"Death is better, a milder fate than tyranny",
Aeschylus (525BC-456BC),
Agamemnon.
"If you talk with the animals, they will talk with you
and you will know each other.
If you do not talk to them, you will not know them,
and what you do not know you will fear.
What one fears, one destroys."
Chief Dan George
All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer
"Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
even tho it's a hopeless task,
in this system of things.
As long as man is ruling man,
there will be animals (and humans!)
abused and neglected. :-(
Your student," Juanita.
"If you've got them by the balls
their hearts and minds
will follow,"
John Wayne.
ANY QUESTIONS, People?
"Ye shall know the truth,
and the truth shall make you mad." -
~Aldous Huxley.
"Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens!"
"Against stupidity the Gods themselves contend in vain!"
-Friedrich Schiller.
INDEEDY.
AND THAT'S HOWE COME THEY GOT ME NHOWE!
In Love And Light,
I Remain Respectfully, Humbly Yours,
The WORLD'S CRUELEST Trainer,
Jerry Howe,
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
A-M-A-Z-I-N-G
*M-A-J-E-S-T-I-C*
*G-R-A-N-D*
*M-A-S-T-E-R*
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Ferret, Goat, Monkey
SpHOWES And Horsey Wizard <{) ;~ ) >
HOWE MAY I SERVE YOU <{}; ~ ) >
Sincerely,
Jerry Howe,
Director of Research,
Human And Animal Behavior
Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory,
BIOSOUND Scientific,
Director of Training,
Wits' End Dog Training
1611 24th St
Orlando, FL 32805
Phone: 1-407-425-5092 (Call ANY TIME)
http://www.freewebs.com/thesimplyamazingpuppywizard
E-mail:
Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
@HotMail.Com
Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
@HotMail.Com
TheSimplyAmazingPuppyWizard @HotMail.Com