Discussion:
Training collars
(too old to reply)
robgraham
2009-02-20 14:02:51 UTC
Permalink
I have a German shep which, when on a lead, is inclined to leap and try to
get at other dogs. What devices are there that anyone can recommend to
prevent this? I think some sort of collar would do it, but what else?

Rob Graham
Susan
2009-02-20 22:33:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by robgraham
I have a German shep which, when on a lead, is inclined to leap and try
to get at other dogs. What devices are there that anyone can recommend
to prevent this? I think some sort of collar would do it, but what else?
Rob Graham
A training collar can certainly help provide correction to a dog during
training (a little of what I know on the different types below), but the
method of training is even more important. A lot of the little things
people let dogs get away with (pulling, *ever* is a big one), failure to
get them adequate exercise, or a general lack of enforced boundaries
(such that the dog doesn't have a clear dominant leader) are what cause
bad behavior -- it's important to realize that a training collar is a
*tool* to provide correction during training, and on its own (without
proper training and appropriate dominant human behavior) it will NOT help
anything.

So, here are the types of collars I have run into:

So-called "gentle leaders" also referred to as "training harnesses" are
absolutely USELESS for providing correction. They just aren't designed
for it -- they hold a dog in place (if you are strong enough to resist
when they dig in), but do not provide any physical correction to let them
know a behavior isn't being tolerated so they can learn to do better

The same goes for "martingale collars", the flat collars with the little
piece of linked chain at the bottom.

Choke chains can be effective with some dogs -- I've had some that
respond well to them, and others that will strain against them hard
enough to gag themselves (which can eventually cause permanent injury)
without a thought.

Some pet stores sell "pincher" or "prong" collars, metal collars with
rounded metal pinchers that tweak the dog's skin when pulled from the
leash. Some stronger-willed dogs, especially more powerful breeds (like
some of my dobes) need these to get sufficient correction. If you get
one of these, it is important to be sure that it is sized properly
(adding and removing links is easy), that the non-pronged chain bit is at
the bottom by the dog's throat, and that the collar has round-ended
pinchers, not pointed ones that could pierce the dog's skin. Round-ended
pincher collars are quite safe if used correctly, they get their bad rap
from badly made collars with sharp ends that no reputable store sells any
more anyway.

Recently, I discovered a neat collar, somewhat conceitedly called the
"perfect dog training collar" that has plastic triangular pinchers inside
-- it's a nice middle ground between prong collars and choke chains. It
can be found on theperfectdog.com (Their training DVDs aren't bad
either, I base my training method partly on these videos, partly on some
tips from the Dog Whisperer show, and partly on my experience with
rescued dobes.) I've only used this on dobes, though, and I'm not sure
the triangles would even reach the skin on a dog as fluffy as a German
Shepard.

Hope that helps,

Susan
Jo Wolf
2009-02-23 05:28:36 UTC
Permalink
What you really need is a good dog obedience class... Not one at a pet
store. Ask the staff at your vet clinic and at the local huamne society
for recommendations. Your dog has learned to pull and lunge and you
need good guidance to change that... both of you need the training. GSDs
are extremely bright dogs and enjoy learning. Just like it's a shame to
waste a human mind, it's a shame to waste a dog's mind. You'll enjoy
the big galoot Much more.
robgraham
2009-02-25 12:36:21 UTC
Permalink
Thank you both for your useful inputs. My position is not quite what I
indicated. I currently have an old German Shepherd who's living on borrowed
time. When he goes, I want another, but my wife wants a much smaller dog. I
refuse to discuss it until the time comes, but I want to make sure that the
new puppy does not pull my wife over (which is what she is afraid of) when
it's grown up. So it's vital that a new GSD is well-behaved from the start,
and although our current one is reasonable, he's not impeccable, albeit he
doesn't bother a lot now being old and having not very good back legs.

Your thoughts were very useful. Thank you.

Rob
Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
2009-03-16 20:44:45 UTC
Permalink
HOWEDY robgraham,


Welcome to The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin
Insanely Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey,
SpHOWES, And Horsey Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW
Wits' End Training Method Manual Forums And Human
And Animal Behavior Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory.

I'm Jerry Howe, The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin
Insanely Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey,
SpHOWES, And Horsey Wizard, Director Of
Trainin an Research <{}'; ~ ) >


I've got forty five years of EXXXPERIENCE raising and
training mostly giant breed working dogs for families and
security specializing in temperament and behavior problems
and protection <{}: ~ ) >

Here's your own FREE COPY of The Sincerely Incredibly
Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey, SpHOWES, And Horsey
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Training
Method Manual:
http://www.freewebs.com/thesimplyamazingpuppywizard/777witsendmanual.htm
The actual INSTRUCTION begins on the third page "*777*
Wits' End Method", abHOWET 1/4 down the page starting
with "Here's ALL the INFORMATION you NEED" and my
phone # and instructions to CALL ANY TIME.

There you will find ALL the FREE information you need
to pupperly handle raise and train your pets and family.
Just follow the instructions PRECISELY and ASK me if
you need any additional FREE HEELP <{}: ~ ) >


You'll likeWIZE find ETHICAL nutrition and heelth
care practices taught on the heelth page *(last link
on the left side) of my website <{}'; ~ ) >


----------------------


Disciple Paulie Sez:


"No One Understands How Wits End Training
Really Works; They Assume It's All Nicey Nicey
And don't Realise It's A Very Disciplined Method
That Deals With Any Situation And The Foundation
Is Built On Trust And Understanding.


I've never forced my dogs to do anything,
I tell them they are good dogs and they
seem to follow me, onceI told them they
were bad dogs and they ran away from me,
now I only ever tell them they are good dogs
and they always are, always.


Trust your dog, ask it to do your request and say
"good dog" sincerely at the end of the request and
I bet you'll find your dog thinking then responding
everytime.


A Bit Of Respect Works Wonders,
The Same Rule Applies
To Every Aspect Of
The Relationship With Your Dog.


Obedience And Affection Are Not Related,
if They Were Everyone Would Have
Obedient Dogs.


I Have Found Giving Dogs "Payment" In Advance i.e.
"Sam sit goodboy" Makes The Dogs WANT TO RESPOND,
After All, All Dogs Want To Be "Good Dogs" And If
You Tell Them They Are Good Then They Feel An
Obligation To Obey Your Request.


Telling Sam He's A Good Dog AFTER He Sit's
Apart From Being Too Late Is Also A Gamble
Because If He Doesn't Sit Then There's No
Positive Interaction.


Paul


-------------------------
Post by robgraham
I have a German shep which, when on a lead,
is inclined to leap and try to get at other dogs.
ALL aggression is FEAR; ALL FEAR is CAUSED
BY MISHANDLING, therefore ALL fears can be
EXXXTINGUISHED NEARLY INSTANTLY simply
by DOIN EVERY THING EXXXACTLY PRECISELY
OPPOSITE of HOWE you been TRAINED <{}: ~ ( >



Nevyn writes:


Jerry I cannot even begin to tell you the success Ive had with
your training manual! My two mutts have gone from out-of-
control psychos to obedient well behaved companions within
a matter of weeks! AND My friends have seen the success and
have asked me to work on their dogs! I was working with a 5
month old Ridgeback female today and she was being an angel
after like an hour of working with her!

It is AMAZING!!


I pity those fools who take their dogs to classes where the
"Trainers" abuse their dogs! (do they have a degree? A masters? a Phd? by
the way? NO they are average joes
off the street who think they know how to train dogs!)

Once again, Jerry, you are a genius!


NEVYN and my Dogs, Rizzo and Midget, My Grandparents
dogs, Dusty and Snoopy, and my friends pup, Jazz.



--------------------


From: ***@claque.net
Date: 22 May 2005 22:08:53 -0700
Subject: Re: My lab seems to get targeted at the dog park
Post by robgraham
Anyone else have an opinion?
I'm not a trainer and my experience is limited to my
two dogs, so take it for what it's worth. As someone
who had to deal with a puppy who had his own ideas
about what was and what wasn't "proper behavior", I
was very happy to find The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
dog training method.

It is a method that is gentle to the dog, very easy
to apply and it has been working wonderfully with
both my dogs, giving practically instant results.


It was as if I had been given the "key" to understanding
and controlling my puppy's behavior: suddenly, he was
istening to me, doing what I was asking him to do, instead
of constantly opposing me.


It also worked with some issues my older dog had, too -
her fear of thunder, her barking and her aggression
towards another female dog.


Don't let either the first impression about the "weirdness"
of The Amazing Puppy Wizard, or the regulars' negative
opinion of him (there's a long history behind it) deter you
from at least reading the manual and deciding for yourself
if you want to try it or not.

I wish all the best to you and your dog.


Lucy


-----------------------------


AND LIKE THIS:


Val writes Monday, 6/3/02:


Well, for what it's worth, I am praising without physical
contact and she does seem to listen better than when I
would praise with it. I agree that it is a distraction.


Anyway, no more aggressive behaviors from her since I
started the Witts End."

That was 3 DAYS after her original post of 5/31 with
a dog fighter who turned on her and her grandkid.


-------------------------


Here's Val's FIRST post:


From: "Valerie M. Holmes" <***@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002
Subject: Aggressive Dal from shelter


I recently adopted a female, spayed 3 1/2 yr old dalmatian from
a no-kill shelter. She spent 2 years in the shelter and naturally
she has some socialization issues to overcome.


My problem is I am not quite sure HOW to tackle these issues...

1. She is aggresive toward **ALL** other dogs, even dogs that
have shown that they are willing to be submissive. Upon sight
of a dog, she lunges and snarls.


2. She is usually kind and affectionate toward her owner (me),
but recently began turning sour and for no apparent reason snarls toward
me!

This has completely destroyed the trust we
were building over the past month.


3. She deals with visitors, but is very anxious around people
she doesn't know. At first she would scream if a stranger petted
her with 2 hands. I just don't trust her around anyone yet.


4. She lunged at my sisters 2 year old the same way
she lunged toward other dogs, aggressively.


I really really like this dog, when she is calm and able to relax.


I want to keep her, but I don't really know what the best
way to establish the necessary trust. Any ideas out there?


--------------------------------


SEE?

HOWEDY marybeth,
Post by robgraham
Hi Valerie most of us have jerry killfiled so he doesn't get under our
skin at all
You read my posts first.
Post by robgraham
Exactly.
BWWWWEEEJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAAAA!!!

Got me laughin in Spanish...think I'm gonna pee myself.
Post by robgraham
But then again only howdy thinks he does.
You've made HUNDREDS of daily posts warning
people about me, as have sindy 'don't let the dog
SCREAM" mooreon, lying lois, ed w of pet loss dot
CON, and a few others.

You and your Gang Of Lying Dog Abusing Thugs
are having a group psychotic breakdown just like
lyingdogDUMMY did.


You've been JERRYIZED.


There is a cure and I guarantee you I'm gonna like it.
Post by robgraham
And, LOOK!, so does "Val".
Val came here Friday with a dangerous dog and
now has a perfectly well behaved dog 3 days later.
And he'll keep gettin better till he sits the bed.
Post by robgraham
Hehehe
Didja also see that he has 'morphed' into Valerie M. Holmes ?????
Note: I am not saying there isn't a VALID Valerie M. Holmes, but this one
lives in howdy's home. MB <G>
From: Seeing Spots \(Val\) (***@worldnet.att.net)
Subject: Re: Dear Wits End
Date: 2002-06-04 18:19:07 PST


HEY!!!


There is a Valid Valerie with a REAL Dalmatian who is a real
sweet dog with a few issues that I am working to resolve after
adopting her from a shelter she spent 2 years in. All I want
is to get some decent help for my dog.


There is some decent stuff in Jerry's manual. My dog has
ACTUALLY been responding to her training. The deal is you
have to seperate your opinions and impressions from the guy
who is writing these posts and take from the manual what you
want.


Personally, I get a pretty good chuckle out of the whole Jerry
thing. I have to say the guy is pretty clever, you're letting
him get under your skin. It makes for a very amusing game I
think. I'm sure he would agree, or he wouldn't be playing
everyday. He also wouldn't be playing if he didn't believe
that his method of training weren't valid.


Perhaps I'll learn from my mistakes, but so far, using the
Witts End, I have gotten my dalmatian to listen to me, to look
to me for direction, to wait for me to say when. I have
changed her from an aggressive dog to one who is willing to
please her owner, willing to listen, willing to assume her
role in the pack.


The real Valerie M. Holmes speaking


P.s. Jerry, don't get any ideas about morphing into me, ok?


------------------------------------

From: BNTDOBES @aol.com
To: ***@bellsouth.net
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 10:26 PM


Subject: Re: THANKS ALISON! - "Owners Should Always
Be Given The Cold, Hard Facts: They Should NEVER FEEL
GUILTY For Having An Aggressive Dog Euthanized."


Dear Jerry,


It's Kay here. I don't know who these people are that
maligning you and your training manual but tell them
from me that it does work.


Hunter is just doing so well even the people who advocated
putting him down are impressed with him.


I even started using it with the neighbor's dog. I went over
there to help her cut his nails. She started yelling at him
for growling at me. I told her to tell him what a good boy he
is instead. Lo and behold he stopped growling and I could
do his nails.


All 4 feet.


My dog Hunter was trained with the old jerk and pull method
and my other dog was trained with treats. Hunter has gotten
his enthusiasm back for his training and I couldn't be more
pleased.


He even tried to kiss a child the other day.


Major break through.


This is the dog that a few months ago tried to eat the kids
through the fence. I can now take him in the car with me
again without him trying to chase cars through the windshield.


So Jerry tell these people that the first rule of dog training
is Do No Harm.


The 2nd rule is whatever works without breaking the first
rule.


Aggressive dogs don't need to be put down. Hunter was
diagnosed aggressive and he is going to stay alive and
by my side where he belongs.


Thank you so much.
Kay


-----------------


From: ***@bellsouth.net (The Puppy Wizard)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 06:07:52 -0000


Subject: "Your Method Takes Positive Training To The
Next Level And Should Really Be Used By All Tainers
Who Call Themselves Trainers,"

Kay Pierce.


---------------------------


LIKE THIS:


From: <BNTDOBES @AOL.COM>
To: <jho>
Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2002 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: Wits end Training


Jerry,


I started Hunter on his training using your manual
and training method. What a marked difference in
just a few hours.


I had him in my van and just using the sound with
his remote trainer and telling him he's a good dog
when he started looking like he was going to bark
at a car worked great.


He only barked 2 or 3 times. Then I took him to a
spot that we had used years ago to train, Jerry I
have hope that I can have my happy dog back soon.


And not this tense unhappy creature I live with now.


He was so happy today. I am looking forward to
getting the machine so that he can stay that way.


Thank you,


Kay Pierce


-------------------


AND LIKE THIS:


From: "Marisa" <***@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002


Subject: one day


I started some of the simple techniques in
Jerrys manual today.


The family pack exercise.... come command.....
that's all so far though.


I did get the proper equipment as well.
20 foot leash, cans with pennies partially
crushed, flat collar, etc.


I have also stopped any negative reinforcment
such as loud "No" and "Bad girl Sonique!"
(Sonique is my Jack russell) and holding her
back, which I normally MUST do or she'll jump
and nip sometimes, but always jumping and barking.


Already tonight some has started working.
When someone came to the door, Sonique
went nuts as usual.


I said "Thank you Sonique!"
"It's o.k. girl, thank you!"


And we got a total of about 6 barks and then
no jumping on guests, no biting, growling
or the worst, the continued barking she
normally does.


She accepted my praise, and trooted around,
still excited over guests, but she was WAY
more under control.


Even my roomates noticed this.


She repeated this same thing
without all her normal fuss later
when another two friends came over.


So I do need more time, going to keep with it
another day, another month whatever until I
know I am getting results, although I must say,
so far I am impressed with my dog.


She really responds to praise better than
she ever has responded to treats as distraction
from the guests and doorbell, or me yelling
"bad girl! go away now! shoosh up!" all the time.


I am also verbally praising her everytime
she makes eye contact with me. so hopefully
things will continue going well!-


- Marisa


------------------
Post by robgraham
What devices are there that anyone
can recommend to prevent this?
Dogs PULL on leash to EXXXCAPE bein CHOKED
on pronged spiked pinch and slip choke collars and
choking head and body harnesses your newfHOWEND
lyin animal murderin MENTAL CASE PALS recommend;

EVERY TIME you TRY to FORCE your dog to "master
z waaaalk" you TRIGGER the opposition reflex which
causes FEAR and increases anXXXIHOWESNESS
on accHOWENTA you've INTIMIDATED him.

THAT'S HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy Wizard
DON'T DO what the EXXXPERTS TEACH US TO DO:
"Greg M. Silverman" ***@no.umn.edu
wrote in message


Hey, Mr. Wizard, or Alchemist or whatever your alias
of the day is, have to say that our dog heels much
better than she did. This is after reading and
implementing the bit in your "Wits End" treatise.


And she's a royal nutter (but then again, aren't they all?).
Cheers! Greg--


--------------------



From: <>
To: "Jerry Howe" <***@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: Damned Family Leadership Exercise -

Re: Am I expecting to much


Hi Jerry,


When I talked to you on the phone to order to machine
for daughter's new pup, I told you that I had an older
Chessie. I rescued him at 9 years old and have had
him for 3 years.


It's funny, but I thought I'd try some of your book
training with him. Where I used to say "come" and
then say "good boy" when he obeyed, I have reversed
it with a "good boy" first.


It really does work.


He was very confused at first, wondering
what he had done to get the praise.

But it really gets the attention and distracts him from
whatever he may have going through his brain when
he hears it.


Dogs are funny, but people are too.

Can't wait to get the Doggy do Right, etc.

Thanks,

N
-------------------------

Subject: Re: It doesn't work. Do it harder.
Post by robgraham
Interesting question posed in this article: why do humans persist in doing
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/02/15/HO240381.DTL
There may be a few reasons, sometimes it's ignorance,
simply a failure to realise what you are doing is
futile and you need to adopt a different approach.


Sometimes you may be learning a new technique and need
to experiment with it to be sure it's not just the way
you are applying it that is the problem, you may need
to try slight variations of the same technique to see
if there is a different result before you dismiss it
completely.


Sometimes you are doing the only thing you can think
of, even though it's not working but you simply don't
know what else to do.


Either way as long as you are able to reflect and learn
from your experiences and move forward then a few failed
attempts are all part of the learning process.


My best example was teaching both dogs to walk to heel,
alone and together in the brace position. I was determined
to teach them without any aids (choke, prong collars or
treats etc) and without forcing the heel by jerking or
restraining them using a leash, I knew it could be done,
despite the scorn of friends and even family who "knew
better" (but had never actually trained a dog in their
lives).


It took me a while trying various ways to entice them
to want to walk beside me, someone else at the dog park
whose dog appeared to heel very well ( but held it's
ears back and tail down and looked very intimidated about
being at heel) suggested I give up and use a choke collar
like him, but I was obstinate.


One day like a switch it all fell into place, first one
dog then the other then both together all walked to
heel, then I tried without leads and it worked, the dogs
were happy and so was I.


I had persevered and succeeded and learnt a lot in the process.


People said "it took you long enough" but now I could
teach heel easily and quickly when I need to do it again.


And now when I walk my dogs and I see the same scornful
people with their dogs still pulling on the choke collars
saying "heel, heel" it's me who has the last laugh.


Paul


--------------------------

From: Eric
To: ***@bellsouth.net
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 7:54 AM
Subject: just checking in..

Jerry!


You helped me with my pal Dundee about a year ago
regarding submissive peeing. Just wanted to let you
know he's doing great- he was "cured" in about 2 days
using your techniques!


He has since become the "smartest dog in the world"!
Once I stopped thinking like a human and got inside his
head, I can teach him ANYTHING, usually in a matter
of minutes. Makes me look like an expert dog-trainer.


I rescued two strays last week, cleaned 'em up, wormed
'em, and am getting them their shots. Time to get inside
their heads and teach them to teach themselves how to
be good dogs!


Instead of feeling like "training" is a chore, I look forward
to working with these guys a couple times a day...


Although I don't follow your instructions "to a T", I learned
from you to "think like a dog" and stimulate their brain rather
than beating ass or pinching, or any of that nonsense.


I know damn well I would NOT be loyal to someone
who beat MY ass lol!


Well, just wanted to thank you for rattling the bushes
out there and teaching folks the RIGHT way to "train" dogs.


A horseman friend of mine uses very similar techniques in
training his horses- he calls it "natural horsemanship". He
is hated by nearly all the local "trainers" yet somehow he
repeatedly wins at every show he attends. He rarely shows
any more, but goes now and then to rub their noses in it
(pun intended)... Too cool....


Have a great holiday season and keep up the good work!


Eric , Dundee, Sammy, and Maynard


-------------------
Post by robgraham
I think some sort of collar would do it,
Actually, it's EZier to TRAIN a dog using NO collar <{}: ~ ) >

LIKE THIS:


To: ***@bellsouth.net
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 9:56 PM
Subject: hi


Hi Jerry,


Starr says hi, she's enjoying new freedom, iv
been working her off lead in my yard she comes
every time. She got a little spooked today I don't
really know why but she wanted to go inside,
anyway when I asked her to come her attitude
changed as she took up her position in front of me.


Then she was easy to get under control.


Oh and with winter we're having let me tell
you its great to have a dog that doesn't pull
on the lead anymore. With all this ice i'd hate
being dragged around.


Oh and i meant to tell you and never got around
to it, i was able to rescue a lost, fear/aggressive
dog from running all over the street using the
methods which are now almost second nature to
me. with body language, praise and distraction i
got a dog that i thought might try to bite me sitting
happily at my side and wanting to be pet and played
with while we waited for the dog officer to take him
to the shelter so it all worked out well:-)


bye bye for now, crystal

-------------------------

SEE?

AND LIKE THIS:


"Nevyn" <***@badmama.com.au> wrote in message news:***@grimiore.conceptual.net.au...

HOWEDY Group,
Here some SUCCESS STORIES ive had using
JERRY'S MANUAL


1) My dogz, two bitches - Vicious, barking, aggressive,
pulled on leash, wanted to kill any dogs they saw, fought between each
other. TWO WEEKS using Jerry's manual,
they were calm, friends, my companions.

2) ADDED A BEAGLE PUPPY (male) to my "PACK", the
girls had -NO PROBLEMS- with him from the moment I
dropped him by their noses.


3) My FRIENDS dogs 2 MALES barking and jumping
at the fence all night 3 DAYS TRAINING WITH JERRY'S
MANUAL they were CALMED AND HAVEN'T BARKED ONCE!


Added a NEW MALE DOG (2 yrs old) AND
WELCOMED HIM WITH NO WUCKAS !


4) POODLE that ATE food from the KITCHEN BENCH -
lock him in a box? NO! USE JERRYS MANUAL! 4 DAYS
AND HES NEVER DONE IT SINCE!


5) ABUSED DOGS AT THE SHELTER I WORK AT -
HAD TO BE FED WITH A BUCKET ON A STICK -
ONE WEEK ON JERRYS MANUAL, THE SUPERVISOR
TOLD ME TO PUT THEM IN THE PUBLIC KENNELS
FOR SALE !


Quite amazing to - I thought they were just dull coloured
dogs, but after I had removed the fear and anxiety their
hairs coloured up amazingly.


6) STAFFY FEMALE who would NOT DROP HER
BALL! She carried it around all day and night - 3
DAYS on jerrys MANUAL and she now DROPS
it when u ASK her to!


BWHWHAHAHAHAAHA !!!!


Nevyn

--------------------------
Post by robgraham
but what else?
Oh, you MIGHT just wanna learn HOWE to
pupperly raise, train, an handle a innocent
defenseless dumb critter PRYOR to molestin
IT <{}: ~ ( >

LIKE THIS:


From: Mike (***@ns.sympatico.ca)
Subject: Re: Info. on the puppy wizard?
Date: 2004-07-18 14:27:02 PST
Post by robgraham
Oh, and did I mention his methods work, ya nuff said. Mike
Ok Mike which part worked for you?
It helped clear problems from my dogs in the
field using the can penny distraction technique.

Works like a charm.


My dogs get distracted easy from their jobs ie,
retrieving or training to find lost people, oh did
I mention that I am a Search and Rescue Team
Leader.


Sorry that slipped my mind.


I have read volumes of training books and don't
know where people get that Jerry copied others
work as I have NEVER come across his methods
before. I would like to see proof.


Just like Jerry outlined I eliminated problems one
at at time as they arose. I used to try and train to
the way I wanted them but this is backward, you
train out the problems leaving what you want left
over.


Funny part is the second dog who had the same
problems as the other didn't need correcting for
some of his habits after I cleared it from the first
dog.


Seemed he learned through osmosis.


Nice side benefit there.


It nearly came to giving them up to a 3rd party
trainer as they were not performing well. The
VAST majority of working dog trainers are
agressive in their actions with the dogs.


I tried it and it didn't work and guess what I
was at my "Whits End" then someone I new
turned me onto Jerry and the rest is history.


I referred friends and families to Jerry's manual
and all have had great results. Starting puppies
out on the distraction technique is especially
good because they never develop the habit.


I had my sisters dog healing, sitting and down
stay reliably at 8-9 weeks. The first night home
following Jerrys advice we ditched the crate and
put the pup on the floor beside the bed and after
2 whimpers NOT A SOUND OUT OF THAT DOG
FOR 6 HRS! first night, that has never happened
in all my days.


Sorry, the man understands dogs its that simple.


Mike



--------------------


From: "Lisa" <***@katz.pitt.edu>
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 14:47:39 GMT


Subject: Re: what's hard for you?
Post by robgraham
well jerry says , distract her with sound and praise her for the slightest
acknowledgement , doesnt that work?
<snip>

Actually, that's not exactly what Jerry says. He says:


"EXAMPLE: As your dog pulls, you pull back. Now you
are both pulling. Next, you get frustrated and mad. Then ALLELOMIMETIC
BEHAVIOR COMES INTO THE PICTURE,
and your dog copies your actions and attitudes and gets
frustrated and mad. What may have started out as a nice
walk could soon become a tense, frustrating situation.

This anxiety, with out a vent or release mechanism,
continues long afterward.

SOLUTION: Don't allow pulling. When your dog pulls,
just relieve the tension on the leash and praise immediately.

Do this consistently.

We have just a split second to praise him after
releasing tension on the lead or else the message
will not get across. Pulling on the leash, even as
little as one pound of pressure per square inch,
for just a second and a half is enough to trigger
the opposition reflex."

I have read this part of the manual and successfully
used it on my dog, Beau. The first time I tried it was
yesterday in our yard, for about 5 minutes.

Last night I took him for one of the first pleasurable walks
I've ever had with him. I still used a Halti head harness as
well as a flat leather collar, but for 95% of the walk he did
not pull at all, neither did we stop at each and every spot
so he could lift his leg.

-Lisa

-------------------------

AND LIKE THIS:

"If I Knew It Would Be That Easy, I Would Have
Done This A Long Time Ago Saving Myself 5 Years
Of Dealing With A Bouncy, Over Excited Dog!" Jenn.


Hello Jenn,
Post by robgraham
Hello Jerry, I just wanted to let you know that I am trying this right
now.
Good.
Post by robgraham
I am the woman who wrote to you a while ago about trying to walk my dog
without the pinch collar.
I recall.
Post by robgraham
She also goes APE when I grab the leash. We have been doing this technique
you recommend for about a half an hour now and the results are already
fantastic, as well as amusing!
Yeah, dog training should always be more
fun than work.
Post by robgraham
At first, we went out and I stood there, and Anya kept trying to head out
to the sidewalk. When I didn't follow, she came and sat beside me at heel!
(Thanks to your help!) She'd NEVER done that before.
It's the same principle as in the Hot And
Cold Exercise.
Post by robgraham
I rewarded that with a few steps of a walk, but we came in after about 30
seconds. She stopped and looked at me as if she were thinking, "What? But
we just got out here!" The second and third times, she was even MORE eager
when she saw the leash, and I got the same look when I turned around to
go back in. The fourth time, she just bounced a bit as she walked to the
door with me, and sat nicely to wait until I hooked up the leash, and this
last time, I HAD TO CALL HER TO ME!!!!!!!!!!
Fine. That's because dogs learn on the basis of
four repetitions. That's not to say they can't learn
some things faster, but for breaking habits, it
usually happens the fourth time we repeat a lesson.

Then we need to repeat the lesson at three more
locations our time in each to generalize the idea.
Let's say your dog gets excited when you take her
lead and go to the front door. She would probably
do the same at the back door, but to not such a degree.


Likewise for any other door.


It would behoove you to repeat the exercise with
several other doors and it would be easiest to
start with a door that had less excitement involved
with it.
Post by robgraham
If I knew it would be that easy, I would have done this a long time ago
saving myself 5 years of dealing with a bouncy, over excited dog!
The non force methods work fast and easy
because we are not challenging the dog or
calling our attention to their behavior problems.
Post by robgraham
I have to tell you how the walk is going though. I have a lot of problems
there, but it is all ME. I have been so conditioned to "correct" her, that
I still find myself yanking on her collar.
Yes, those habits are hard to break. It's easier for
me to train a person who has no experience at all
because they have no bad habits of pulling and
forcing control.
Post by robgraham
I feel so awful! We have only been working in the yard without
distractions, because I honestly don't know what will happen if she sees
another dog and I won't have the pinch collar to keep her from dragging me
over for a fight.
You know that working the dog in the back
yard is not preferable, because that causes
them some anxiety because it's their free area.
But with your dog and with the difficulty he is
to handle, I don't see any reason you shouldn't
do the Family Leadership Exercise and the come
command several times out there, and then you'll
have the control to do it in a more neutral area.
Post by robgraham
The upside is, when I take the leash off it's hook and don't take the
pinch collar, her excitement to go for a walk is NO LONGER combined with
the intense fear I used to see in her eyes at the sight of the pinch!
Our group likes to think that is EXCITEMENT and
eagerness to work. It is sheer terror. The pinch
collar works by overriding the opposition reflex
through fear and that cause tremendous stress
and anxiety that must be released through anxiety
relief mechanisms like barking, digging, whining,
chewing, self mutilation and aggression.
Post by robgraham
That does it for me. I can't believe I instilled fear in my beautiful dog
just for the sake that I didn't know how to train. Well, I still don't
know how, but I'm learning!
That's where I was three dozen years ago. I was
ready to just quit. I wasn't going to sour any more
dogs to make them work.
Post by robgraham
Thanks for your help. Please send more suggestions if you saw something I
could be doing differently! Jenn & Anya
-------------------

AND LIKE THIS:

Subject: Re: Dog will not listen to anyone but me!
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 11:33:36 -0500
Message-ID: ***@corp.supernews.com

Okay, I gotta speak up here... We've been using Jerry's
methods with our dog. We had the same problem as the
original poster has with Buzz. One day working with the
family pack exercise and practicing the recall command
with the family and she'll now go out with hubby and
daughter instead of needing me to reassure her or even
refusing to go with anyone but me.


I really urge you, regardless of the negative things you
might hear about Jerry & Wits' End here, to try the method
and *judge the results for yourself*.


Let's see what other areas she's improved in... always
comes when called, not chewing stuff even if we leave
it laying around, "re"housebroken after long shelter stay,
walks perfectly on leash, doesn't try to steal food from
our plates or beg... probably a few more things I'm
forgetting to mention. *(Yeah, the kats lay off the koi
and don't wander. jh).


That's in about a week's time.


Her overall demeanor has changed. When we brought
her home she was very untrusting and ultra-submissive
(except with her area/toys where she was possessive and
nippy).


She had been abused and beaten by previous owners,
then she was in a shelter for months. They (most of them)
wanted to give up and kill her Now she's gained confidence
and trust with us. Last night was another big breakthrough
(in my eyes). She barked! Big deal, she barked just once
when she heard the front door. Great!


Anyway, you'll be told lots of nasty stuff about Jerry
or that the Wits' End manual is culled from other sources.
In my opinion, even if it is, it takes only the good stuff
and leaves out the bad. Works for me.

(And I suppose I gotta say this... I don't know Jerry
personally. I've emailed him and instant messaged him.
I have not bought a "Doggy Do Right". He's offered help
for free.)

Ms. Mick Owen Crneckiy
http://www.crneckiy.com & http://tarot.crneckiy.com
E-mail & MSN Messenger: ***@crneckiy.com
AIM & Yahoo!: MickCrneckiy ~ ICQ: 72461227


--------------------
Post by robgraham
Well I am happy to reply that so far after 10 minutes of work and the cans
from mr Howes guide,
You mean The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual <{); ~ ) >
Post by robgraham
I have instilled the "come" command to Riley.
Good. You mean INSTALLED the come command as
a conditional reflex. Be SHORE to perform the
EXXXORCISES four times in each of four locations.
Post by robgraham
He is an extremley smart dog, I have never had to go to the third or
fourth try.
Good. DON'T SKIP ANY THING in your FREE
COPY of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual <{); ~ ) >

-------------------

AND LIKE THIS:

From: "BarbnBeau" <***@cogeco.ca>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 01:52:30 -0500
Re: Puppy Wizard's Website

Hi Buzzsaw
Not a Thing to lose ...But a Lot To Gain!!


I can only speak from my experience.. I have a 8 month
old miniature poodle, and although I had done some basic
training with him we had a few barking issues ..ugh


I am happy to tell you, I contacted Jerry at the email
addy I posted and he was so great! I wasn't following
the technique precisely but he helped me get back on track.


Beau is doing sooooo well it is really a thrill working
with him, and seeing the remarkable changes.


Now I can ask for "recall" (come) both on and off lead
and it is immediate!


the first time I ask.


Best of Luck to you,


Remember if you need help or explanation contact Jerry ..
he will be more than happy to help anyway he can.


Cheers
Barb

----------------------

AND LIKE THIS:

Hi, Jerry.


I'm not sure that I'm a 100% convert, or that
I agree with (or even understand) 100% of
what you say in this manual ... BUT ... we
had "come" down pat in a few reps and you
could have knocked me down when I tried
the exercise with "drop" and, after a few reps
in different spots Darwin practically *threw*
the rubber ball at my feet on command.


He's still not perfect (just a pup, after all,
and he's stubborn enough to want to push
and test me a little bit more).


For what it's worth, I can see (as no doubt
you have) how your usenet manner is likely
to rankle a few folks, but that woman who
advocates ear pulling and beating with sticks
deserves everything she gets. Even if that
was the only method that would work, I'd live
with my dog not fetching rather than do any of that.


(Darwin fetches enthusiastically and instinctively,
tho').


Best, ben

---------------------

AND LIKE THIS:

From:
To: Jerry Howe
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: dog aggression - Today Seemed Like A Miracle -
WELCOME TO WITS' END DOG TRAINING


Sunshine is still acting like a new dog! Saw a dog
today and "good boy-" worked along with calling him-
came the first time every time. Not even a sound out
of him. Think it is hard for him but he never even
seemed to think about going off-reacting. I would
love to write a testimonial but can not seem to find
the site--please send the address--


The word come has no affect on him just the phrase-
-Sunshine come goodboy.

------------------

AND LIKE THIS:


Date: 5/22/03 11:24:35 PM Eastern
Daylight Time
From: ***@cfl.rr.com
To: ***@aol.com


Well, let me tell you, your Wits' End
Dog Training Method works.


My dog, Dasie, Loves to chase chameleons
around the barbecue on the patio. I
used this system on four different occasions.


When she went out today, she looked
everywhere else but the barbecue.
Amazing, just amazing.


I will write to Amanda about the video.


I am really excited to learn more, and
understand. Maybe just a little reassurance
that I am going about it the right way.


Thanks again
Paul


--------------------

SEE?

Subject: Re: New to this Group..Heaven Help me Now!
[ninnyboy] [jerry]


Gees.... I feel like I just flew over the cuckoo's nest
OR perhaps gained access to the asylum :))(smiling)


I must admit I am thoroughly amused, I never imagined one
single little post expressing a newcomers point of view or
perspective would prove to be so controversial and threatening.


* Jerry, I assume that is you, sharing archives of conversations
well ahead of my posting, or time I may have spent here..WTMI (way to much
information) I truly have no interest in that war of
words, your manual makes much more sense and is of far
greater value.

Imagine I could have just sat here and read, put my hands in
my pocket and never let my fingers loose on the keyboard... but
oh no not this Canuk.( these blonde moments of mine do take a
toll -sigh)


The first thing I did was RTFM( read the frigging manual)"Wits
End Dog Training Manual."


The second thing I did was comment on the fact that "it was
working for me and more importantly Beau..my dog"


Upon reflection I could have been more tactful expressing my
view on some of the comments folks make to each other here.


What's that quote: "Tact, the ability to describe others as
they see themselves." Strange how easy it seems to be to make
smart ass comments... to anyone, but not so easy to look at
ourselves.


Not so easy to look in the mirror and question or admit error
about self, choose to change self's approach, or learn a new
lesson.


There have been too many times in my life, I stayed silent,
not stood up for what was right or wrong.... heck people like
silence so much better, it's so none threatening to everyone.


It also shouts acceptance!


Who is Jerry "The Puppy Wizard" don't know him
only know of him, I have never talked or typed to
him personally.

Aristotle thought,"There was never a genius without
a tincture of madness." Is Jerry a "wonder trainer"?
Could be. Does he express himself HERE tactfully?
Nope... doesn't seem to play nice with people.

Is he a Whacko or Savant? hmmm haven't a clue,
perhaps he runs the asylum, and frankly I don't give
a damn!

As Abraham Lincoln once said "Whatever you are,
be a good one."


He has a method, a systematic humane approach,
he wrote and shares a fine piece of work in the form
of a manual.

I have read, tried and worked the system as written...
(ok breathe everyone or close your eyes for the rest..)

IT WORKS!!.... imagine that.

"The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."


You are welcome to put me in "killfiles" or forward a scarlet
letter, perhaps just a rock around my neck.. whatever.


"You have to do your own growing, no matter how tall your
grandfather was."I will attempt to contact Jerry privately
for any further help..perhaps he will answer, perhaps not.


He has helped me get Beau's undivided attention, and get to
his heart, and that is more than I could possibly repay!


My truth, my thoughts in black and white, imagine .."Pleasure
in the job puts perfection in the work"


Do bullets travel as an attachment? Just thought I'd ask:):)


Cheers All

Barb n Beau

-------------------

Subject: < BEFORE -> "Jerry, You filthy, Unctuous,
No Good Charlatan,"


< AFTER -> "Thank You Jerry For Putting Up With
A Constant Barrage Of Really Infantile
Crap At The Hands Of Supposedly Adult
Dog Lovers.


'Naive' Is Believing You Can Terrorize
A Dog Into Good Behavior," Robert Crim.
Post by robgraham
Subject: Re: Fritz---a retrospective Date: 02/05/1999 Author: Robert Crim
You filthy, unctuous, no good charlatan. If you had any idea of what dogs
and dog people were about you would realize the depths of the absolute
loathing and contempt I hold for you right now. Were it not for the
blessed distance and anonymity that the internet gives us from the scummy
likes of you, I would probably be in a jail cell right now for turning you
into the pile of shit you really are
Hey, Howe, you really are a wacko, eh?

Crim wrote this about *YOU,* you insipid piece of cow dung!


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
--
Dogman
mailto:***@i1.net
http://www.i1.net/~dogman

------------------
Post by robgraham
On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:24:15 -0700, dogsnus
Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and watching him
extract his soggy foot out of his mouth! Out of these MILLIONS, I've only
seen 2 naive childs come forward and actually believe in his training
manual.
Robert Crim writes:

I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs
since I freely admit to having read and, I hope,
understood enough of the manual and it's counterparts by
John Fisher and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe
and use it.

This naive child would like to say thank you to both
Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage
of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly
adult dog lovers.


The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the
nagging idea that if people like them had been posting
earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head
of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was
given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he
gasped his last gasp.


To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog.


Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake
names are more honest than people that use their real
names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders
and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.)
are the equal or better than those that have studied and
lived by their craft for decades.


"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are
going to just go away because you people act like fools.


Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I
don't really care.
Post by robgraham
And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and actually admit to buying
and having success with his little black box.
I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and
take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and
testing. You would never believe the results, so you'll
never know.
Post by robgraham
Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by Jerry's posts deserves
to get what is sure to be coming to him! LOL!
I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve,
eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.
Post by robgraham
Terri
Yes it was, and that is sad.

Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to
listen to the box first?)


===========


Crim wrote THAT about *YOU,* tommy,
"you insipid piece of cow dung!"


"BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!"

--------------------

"The day may come when the rest of the
animal creation may acquire those rights
which never could have been withholden
from them
but by the hand of tyranny.


The question is not can they REASON,
nor can they TALK,
but can they SUFFER?"
- Jeremy Bentham


"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised
for the good of its victims,
may be the most oppressive.


Those who torment us for our own good
will torment us without end,
for they do so with the approval of
their own conscience." -
- C.S. Lewis.


"Death is better, a milder fate than tyranny",
Aeschylus (525BC-456BC),Agamemnon.


"If you talk with the animals,
they will talk with you
and you will know each other.


If you do not talk to them,
you will not know them,
and what you do not know
you will fear.


What one fears, one destroys."
Chief Dan George


"Ye shall know the truth,
and the truth shall make you mad." -
~Aldous Huxley.


All Truth Passes Through Three Stages.
First, It Is Ridiculed.
Second, It Is Violently Opposed.
Third, It Is Accepted As Being Self-Evident
-Arthur Schopenhauer-


"Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
even tho it's a hopeless task,
in this system of things.
As long as man is ruling man,
there will be animals (and humans!)
abused and neglected. :-(
Your student," Juanita.


"If you've got them by the balls their
hearts and minds will follow,"
John Wayne.


"Mit der Dummheit kaempfen
Goetter selbst vergebens!"
"Against stupidity the Gods
themselves contend in vain!"
-Friedrich Schiller.


INDEEDY.


AND THAT'S HOWE COME THEY GOT ME NHOWE!


In Love And Light,
I Remain Respectfully, Humbly Yours
The WORLD'S CRUELEST Trainer,
Jerry Howe,
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
A-M-A-Z-I-N-G
*M-A-J-E-S-T-I-C*
*G-R-A-N-D*
*M-A-S-T-E-R*
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Ferret, Goat, Monkey
SpHOWES And Horsey Wizard <{) ;~ ) >


HOWE MAY I SERVE YOU <{}; ~ ) >


Sincerely,
Jerry Howe,
Director of Research,
Human And Animal Behavior
Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory,
BIOSOUND Scientific,
Director of Training,
Wits' End Dog Training
1611 24th St
Orlando, FL 32805
Phone: 1-407-425-5092 (Call ANY TIME)
http://www.freewebs.com/thesimplyamazingpuppywizard


E-mail:


Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory @HotMail.Com


Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
@HotMail.Com


TheSimplyAmazingPuppyWizard @HotMail.Com


MSN, AT&T Or AIM Messenger @:
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