Discussion:
At the end of my leash
(too old to reply)
Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
2009-03-18 15:17:37 UTC
Permalink
HOWEDY Reginald,
Since i got the new pup a few weeks ago i have
been watching these Dog TV Shows like
<big snip... more on those issues comin soon>

Thanks for gettin the ball rollin... as HOWER dog
lover pals post their idiotic, insane, innane replies
I'll reply to you postin their own POSTED CASE
HISTORIES of INSANITY, LIES, INTIMIDATION,
ABUSE an MURDERIN their own fearful, neurotic,
hyperactive an deathly ill dogs <{}:~ ( >

From: A Poor Shepherd Boy And His Dog At His Masters Feet
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 03:13:59 -0700 (PDT)

Subject: Re: Dog Whisperer's Pit Bulls????

HOWEDY sandman,
Just how much control would Caesar have over his PB's
in a situation where 2 or 3 of his pack got into a fight?
0. ZERO. NONE. ZILCH. ZIP. NADA.

As "PACK LEADER" the ces has NO PROBLEM
intimidating EVERY dog in his "PACK". HOWEver,
soon as WON dog turns on HIM, or if the ces turns
his back on them, his own dogs would attack and
murder him in a New York second like HOWE any
other gang of Mexican thugs takin CON-TROLL of
their ringleader <{}: ~ ( >

As "PACK LEADER" the ces relies on FEAR FORCE
INTIMIDATION SURGICAL SEXUAL MUTILATION
and EXXXCESSIVE EXXXORCISE to FORCE CON-
TROLL of his TERRORFIED family pack of "calm
submissive" dogs.
Instinct takes over in a pack and it would be a frenzy.
INDEEDY. It is my desire to WONday be invited to visit
the ces to deamonstrate EXXXACTLY that point. All the
ces's dogs need is to have WON dog NOT FEAR his so
called authority or WON human visitor tell him to go shit
in his sombrero and his FAMILY PACK of fearful dogs
will tear him a new a$$HOWEL <{}: ~ ) >
The rest of the pack would NOT just stand
around and watch quietly,
Rumor has it that his pack has had several melt downs.
at least that is what I've seen of pack behavior.
That's CORRECTO. the ces keeps his family of fearful dogs
under strict intimidation, therefore they all fear him equally.
HOWEver, it will take only WON dog to challenge HIM and
his gravey train turns into the Big Brown River <{}: ~ ( >
That's why they call it a "pack", remember?
INDEEDY <{}: ~ ) >
Caesar is terrific,
That's ABSURD. the ces is a dog child an woman abusin
coward and fraud. I've proven this FACT many times.

I personally believe he's a sissy man.


You can tell by HOWE he walks an talks.
but I do not think he should take visitors into his pack
of PB's as a demonstration.
I do not think he should have his lies faerie tails and abuse
publicized on Jew run National Geographic T.V. <{}: ~ ( >
There's just no way he could break up a pack
fight empty handed and protect his visitors.
CORRECTO. THAT'S HOWE COME he WARNS folks
"DON LOOK. DON TOUCH. Let them come to you" as
he intimidates each approaching dog to remind them who's
the boss.

His "successfully rehabilitated" dogs NEED CONSTANT
EXXXORCISE DISCIPLINE ABUSE and INTIMDIATION
otherWIZE they revert back to their WILD state.


HOWE in the heel do you think he got hisself a pack of
more than thirty dogs? You think he went into the gang
infested areas of L.A. and ADOPTED them? Pussyman
woulda got hisself raped beaten an robbed.


THEY'RE ALL HIS FAILED CUSTOMER'S DOGS.


EVERY FUCKIN WON OF 'EM.
My only gripe with C.
Perhaps you don undersan the nature of the ces phenomenom?:
"The Jews start to panic about being exposed and therefore up
their attack on breaking down America, by encouraging the illegal
immigration of millions of Mexicans into America, and then using
their lobby groups to get the government to give them all amnesty.

The idea is many fold, but it includes: using their centuries old
policy of divide and conquer; getting cheap labour for the
multinational companies they own; and using the social and
economic problem of massive Mexican immigration to divert the
Americans attention from Jewish supremacism."


CAN'T YOU SEE THROUGH THIS CLEVER Zionist SCAM??


the ces is a ILLEGAL Mexican. He should have his assets seized
and be deported to Sunny Mehico like any illegal criminal. Let the
taco bender take his wife and kids with him if Ol Mehico will accept
them.


Where does the ces get his GENIUS dog trainin methods?


The Koehler Method of Dog Training (1962).
New York: Howell Book Book House(p. 52-53)."


Hanging


"First, the trainer makes certain that the collar and leash
are more than adequate for any jerk or strain that the dog's
most frantic actions could cause. Then he starts to work the
dog deliberately and fairly to the point where the dog makes
his grab. Before the teeth have reached their target, the dog,
weight permitting, is jerked from the ground.


As in coping with some of the afore-mentioned problems the dog
is suspended in mid-air. However, to let the biting dog recover
his footing while he still had the strength to renew the attack
would be cruelty.


The only justifiable course is to hold him suspended until he
has neither the strength nor inclination to renew the fight.


When finally it is obvious that he is physically incapable of
expressing his resentment and is lowered to the ground, he will
probably stagger loop-legged for a few steps, vomit once or twice,
and roll over on his side.


The sight of a dog lying, thick-tongued, on his side, is
not pleasant, but do not let it alarm you


THE REAL "HOOD"


"If your dog is a real "hood" who would regard the foregoing
types of protest as "kid stuff" and would express his resentment
of your efforts by biting, your problem is difficult -- and
pressing.


"Professional trainers often get these extreme problems. Nearly
always the "protest biter" is the handiwork of a person who, by
avoiding situations that the dog might resent, has nurtured the s
eeds of rebellion and then cultivated the resultant growth with
under correction.


When these people reap their inevitable and oftentimes
painful harvest, they are ready to avail themselves of
"the cruel trainer" whose advice they may have once
rejected because it was incompatible with the sugary
droolings of mealy-mouthed columnists, breed-ring biddies,
and dog psychologists who, by the broken skins and broken
hearts their misinformation causes, can be proven guilty
of the greatest act of cruelty to animals since the dawn
of time.


"With more genuine compassion for the biting dog than would
ever be demonstrated by those who are "too kind" to make a
correction and certainly with more disregard for his safety,
the professional trainer morally feels obligated to perform
a "major operation."


"Since we are presently concerned with the dog that bites in
resentment of the demands of training, we will set our example
in that situation. (In a later chapter we will deal with the with
the much easier problem of the dog that bites someone other
than his master."


---------------------


Not so handsome, not so gentle, not so manly, not so
happy jackass not even morrison aka dogman aka BIG
DADDY tommy sorenson sez:


"I don't know how big you are, kiddo, so this may
not be as easy for you as it is for me, but use
a little "knee action," that is, as the dog goes
charging by you, just give the dog a little bop
with your knee and shin. Yep, really lean into it.


Even knock her over, if you can, but make sure to
make her think twice about rushing past you again -
- which is exactly what you want her to do.


Don't bother with scolding her, she'll get the message.


If it happens again, just REPEAT the knee action.


When she steps on your toes, just pick up your foot
abruptly and nudge her with your knee. Again, no
scolding is necessary here, so you don't have to
worry about her "over-reacting."


I don't think this is necessarily a lack of respect
for you, just a lack of training. That is, she just
needs *more* of it."


"My objective is always to find a way that WORKS.
And if it is DANGEROUS behavior that I'm trying
to modify, behavior than can get the dog KILLED,
I will resort to ANYTHING to save him.


A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G.


Okay. Call me a cruel, inhumane, abusive bastard
if you want to, but it doesn't affect me at all.
When you've saved the lives of as many dogs as I
have, you'll learn that that's the only thing that
really matters. Saving lives and making dogs become
good citizens


At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a
dog. A swat on the rump or a check to the chin does
*not* constitute a "beating."


=====================


Where does the ces learn to abuse innocent defenseless
dumb critters like that? EZ, he learned it from his
koehler book:


"This, from a yellow-bellied coward who has TOTALLY refused
to engage me in debate, preferring mudslinging, hyperbole,


distortion, lies, exaggeration, and to take Koehler completely
out of context, instead," From: ***@i1.net (Dogman) Date:


1997/11/11


Subject: Re: Koehler's Usefulness--A Concluding Assessment


BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!


ALL Critters Only Respond In
PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways;
To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
Which We Create For Them:


Damn The Descartean War of "Nature Vs Nurture."
We Teach By HOWER Words And Actions
And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.


DOES THAT SOUND FAMILIAR??


"Only the unenlightened speak of wisdom and right action
as separate, not the wise.


If any man knows one, he enjoys the fruit of both.


The level which is reached by wisdom
is attained
through right action as well.


He who perceives that the two are one knows the truth."


"Even the wise man acts in character with his nature,
indeed all creatures act according to their natures.


What is the use of compulsion then?


The love and hate which are aroused
by the objects of sense arise from Nature,
do not yield to them.
They only obstruct the path," -
- Bhagavad Gita,
adapted by Krishna with permission
from His OWN FREE copy of The Simply
Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE Wits' End
Dog Training Method manual <{) ; ~ ) >


"The day may come when the rest of the animal creation
may acquire those rights
which never could have been withholden from them
but by the hand of tyranny.
The question is not can they REASON,
nor can they TALK,
but can they SUFFER?" -
- Jeremy Bentham


"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised
for the good of its victims,
may be the most oppressive.
Those who torment us for our own good
will torment us without end,
for they do so with the approval of
their own conscience." -
- C.S. Lewis.


"Death is better, a milder fate than tyranny",
Aeschylus (525BC-456BC),
Agamemnon.


===========================


Adventures Of Z Dog Wheeesperer
"RED ZONE" CASE:
Butch, English Bull Dog


HOWEDY People,


Welcome to The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely
Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master Puppy, Child,
Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey, SpHOWES, And
Horsey Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Training Method Manual
Forums And Human And Animal Behavior Forensic Sciences
Research Laboratory.


I'm Jerry Howe, The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely
Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master Puppy, Child, Pussy,
Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey, SpHOWES, And Horsey Wizard,
Director Of Trainin an Research. You'll find me live and
in person at http://groups.google.com/group/rec.pets.dogs.behavior/
topics?hl=en <{}: ~ ) >


Here's my manual:
http://www.freewebs.com/thesimplyamazingpuppywizard/777witsendmanual


.htm


There you will find ALL the FREE information you need
to pupperly handle raise and train your pets and family.
Just follow the instructions PRECISELY and ASK me if
you need any additional FREE HEELP <{}: ~ ) >


Butch, English Bull Dog


Butch tells the ces that his bitE *IS WORSE* than his bark.


"He's UNBALANCED," sez the ces... "Pinning dog to floor
returns IT to state of BALANCE. I'm as much SPIRITUAL
energy as PHYSICAL," sez cesar millan, z dog wheeesperer <{}: ~ ) >


Here's cesar's "SPIRITUAL ENERGY" spillin HOWETA his physical body:


http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x272/TheIncrediblySimplyAmazingPu


ppyWizard/?action=view&current=cesarengbullhoseBITE.jpg


Is that Stigmata??


No, it's the RESULT of ABUSE and SHEER IDIOCY <{}: ~ ( >


Here's cesar's TOOLS:


"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him a
stern correction" --Janet Boss


http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x272/TheIncrediblySimplyAmazingPu


ppyWizard/MidevilTortureDevice/?action=view&current=6a3dda34.pbw
Dear lcrolley,
As you saw from last nights episode,
Unfortunately I tuned in just as the ces was pinning Butch
to the floor in a remarkable deamonstration of PSYCHOLOGICAL
dog trainin <{}: ~ ( >
I was afraid of getting bit too.
INDEEDY. THAT'S HOWE COME dog lovers ask the ces *(a Sado-
Masochist), who doesn't mind gettin attacked when "facing
down fighting dogs *(who are actually GLADIATORS) in the
highest state of aggression," to jerk choke and intimidate
their dogs into a calm submissive state for them, using the
TOOLS of their PREFERENCE, usually pronged spiked pinch or
slip choke collars and restriction harnesses or "gentle
leader TM" neck twisters and shock collars <{}: ~ ( >

"It is by muteness that a dog becomes
so utterly beyond value."


Like a confessor Priest?


"With him, words play no torturing tricks..., "
--John Galsworthy.


Don't bet your dog won't tell on you...
Their behaviors reflect
HOWER words, actions and training quirks.
Jerry HOWE, The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
But Cesar gave me the tools,
INDEED?

Here's your dog abusin coward pal cesar millan, z dog
wheeesperer, abusin your dog and gettin attacked while
"teachin IT" not to have so much FUN playin with the
garden hose:





Here's Sunshine, The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely
Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master Puppy, Child, Pussy,
Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey, SpHOWES, And Horsey Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Training Method Manual Student, bein
TRAINED to not obsess over the hose:





Where does the ces learn to abuse innocent defenseless
dumb critters like that? EZ, he learned it from his
koehler book:


"This, from a yellow-bellied coward who has TOTALLY refused
to engage me in debate, preferring mudslinging, hyperbole,
distortion, lies, exaggeration, and to take Koehler completely
out of context, instead," From: ***@i1.net (Dogman) Date:


1997/11/11


Subject: Re: Koehler's Usefulness--A Concluding Assessment


BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!


The Koehler Method of Dog Training (1962).
New York: Howell Book Book House(p. 52-53)."


Hanging


"First, the trainer makes certain that the collar and leash
are more than adequate for any jerk or strain that the dog's
most frantic actions could cause. Then he starts to work the
dog deliberately and fairly to the point where the dog makes
his grab. Before the teeth have reached their target, the dog,
weight permitting, is jerked from the ground.


As in coping with some of the afore-mentioned problems the dog
is suspended in mid-air. However, to let the biting dog recover
his footing while he still had the strength to renew the attack
would be cruelty.


The only justifiable course is to hold him suspended until he
has neither the strength nor inclination to renew the fight.


When finally it is obvious that he is physically incapable of
expressing his resentment and is lowered to the ground, he will
probably stagger loop-legged for a few steps, vomit once or twice,
and roll over on his side.


The sight of a dog lying, thick-tongued, on his side, is
not pleasant, but do not let it alarm you


THE REAL "HOOD"


"If your dog is a real "hood" who would regard the foregoing
types of protest as "kid stuff" and would express his resentment
of your efforts by biting, your problem is difficult -- and
pressing.


"Professional trainers often get these extreme problems. Nearly
always the "protest biter" is the handiwork of a person who, by
avoiding situations that the dog might resent, has nurtured the s
eeds of rebellion and then cultivated the resultant growth with
under correction.


When these people reap their inevitable and oftentimes
painful harvest, they are ready to avail themselves of
"the cruel trainer" whose advice they may have once
rejected because it was incompatible with the sugary
droolings of mealy-mouthed columnists, breed-ring biddies,
and dog psychologists who, by the broken skins and broken
hearts their misinformation causes, can be proven guilty
of the greatest act of cruelty to animals since the dawn
of time.


"With more genuine compassion for the biting dog than would
ever be demonstrated by those who are "too kind" to make a
correction and certainly with more disregard for his safety,
the professional trainer morally feels obligated to perform
a "major operation."


"Since we are presently concerned with the dog that bites in
resentment of the demands of training, we will set our example
in that situation. (In a later chapter we will deal with the with
the much easier problem of the dog that bites someone other
than his master."


--------------------


Not so handsome, not so gentle, not so manly, not so
happy jackass not even morrison aka dogman aka BIG
DADDY tommy sorenson sez:


"I don't know how big you are, kiddo, so this may
not be as easy for you as it is for me, but use
a little "knee action," that is, as the dog goes
charging by you, just give the dog a little bop
with your knee and shin. Yep, really lean into it.


Even knock her over, if you can, but make sure to
make her think twice about rushing past you again -
- which is exactly what you want her to do.


Don't bother with scolding her, she'll get the message.


If it happens again, just REPEAT the knee action.


When she steps on your toes, just pick up your foot
abruptly and nudge her with your knee. Again, no
scolding is necessary here, so you don't have to
worry about her "over-reacting."


I don't think this is necessarily a lack of respect
for you, just a lack of training. That is, she just
needs *more* of it."


"My objective is always to find a way that WORKS.
And if it is DANGEROUS behavior that I'm trying
to modify, behavior than can get the dog KILLED,
I will resort to ANYTHING to save him.


A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G.


Okay. Call me a cruel, inhumane, abusive bastard
if you want to, but it doesn't affect me at all.
When you've saved the lives of as many dogs as I
have, you'll learn that that's the only thing that
really matters. Saving lives and making dogs become
good citizens


At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a
dog. A swat on the rump or a check to the chin does
*not* constitute a "beating."


"This, from a yellow-bellied coward who has TOTALLY refused
to engage me in debate, preferring mudslinging, hyperbole,
distortion, lies, exaggeration, and to take Koehler completely
out of context, instead," From: ***@i1.net (Dogman) Date:


1997/11/11


Subject: Re: Koehler's Usefulness--A Concluding Assessment


BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!


=====================


ALL Critters Only Respond In
PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways;
To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
Which We Create For Them:


Damn The Descartean War of "Nature Vs Nurture."
We Teach By HOWER Words And Actions
And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.


In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
SAME SAME SAME SAME,
For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.


"Things do not change; we change." - Henry David Thoreau


Seems what the ces "teaches" "US" is to EXXXCESSIVELY
EXXXORCISE the dog into an EXXXHAUSTED state he calls
calm submission and then terrorizes IT into attackin him, an then
jerks an chokes the dog an pins IT to the floor "till dog accept you
LEADERSHIP" <{}: ~ ) >


And of curse, that NEVER WORKS in the long run. the ces's
"students" MUST ALWAYS jerk choke and intimidate their dogs
on accHOWENTA "REINFORCEMENT NEVER ENDS" <{}: ~ ( >


Here's the SCIENCE:


B.F. Skinner: Re-evaluation of Punishment


Punishment, unfortunately traditionally overused,
actually has been proven not effective at long-
term behavioral change, and creatures will find
other ways of getting what it wants. In "Freedom
and the control of men" American Scholar, Winter
1955-56, 25, 47-65. 1956 he states:


If we no longer resort to torture in what we call
the civilized world, we nevertheless still make
extensive use of punitive techniques in both
domestic and foreign relations. And apparently for
good reasons. Nature if not God has created man
in such a way that he can be controlled punitively.


People quickly become skillful punishers (if not,
thereby, skillful controllers), whereas alternative
positive measures are not easily learned.


The need for punishment seems to have the support
of history, and alternative practices threaten the
cherished values of freedom and dignity.


Fear involved with punishment causes frustration:
with typical results loathing, hostility and apathy.
Skinner's teaching on the superiority of posittive
reinforcement's benefits for keeping desired behavior
have proved very valuable.


----------------------------


In the followin SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH STUDY, you may
substitute pronged spiked pinch or slip choke collars
for shock and add PUNISHMENT, SCOLDING and witholding
attention and affection:


Psychological Effects


At issue is the question, --Do electronic training
devices elicit psychological responses?


"This section cites several research studies in which the
psychological impact of the use of electronic training devices
was analyzed. It is difficult, at best, for anyone to determine
the full psychological effect of these devices or training methods
until we can agree on exactly what constitutes a stress signal in
a domestic dog. Not only do none of the researchers agree on
what it is, but it varies from dog to dog.


It is even more difficult for humans to determine the full effect
of shock on a dog (or any animal) due to the animal's hard-wired
need to hide pain in order to survive in the wild.


Training dogs with the help of the shock collar: Short and long
term behavioral effects. (Schilder, M. & van der Borga, J. (2004).
Applied Animal Behavior Science, 85, 319-334).


The goal of this study was to determine the behavioral changes in
dogs during training using electronic training collars. Thirty-two
dogs were divided into two groups, each receiving both general
obedience and protection training.


One group was trained with shock collars and the other group
without shock collars. The dogs trained with the shock collars
displayed signs of stress: lowering of body posture, high-pitched
yelps, barks and squeals, avoidance, redirected aggression, and
tongue flicking.


It was also noted by the authors that, even during play and relaxed
walking, the group of dogs trained with shock collars continued to
show signs of stress while in the company of their handler.


The authors concluded that shock-collar training is stressful;
receiving shocks is a painful experience to dogs; and the shock
group of dogs evidently learned that the presence of their owner
(or his commands) announced the reception of shocks, even
outside of the normal training context.


They suggest that the welfare of these shocked dogs is at
stake, at least in the presence of their owners.


This study has come under considerable fire because the experience
of the handlers and dogs is not clear, and the level of shock is not
stated. With that said, it does suggest that dogs are stressed by the
experience of being shocked during training.


---------------------


SEE?
that gave me confidence in knowing that Butch wants nothing
more than to follow ME as his "Pack Leader". It is so awesome
how all of Cesar's teaching tools are all common sense,
INDEED?:

Abuse / Fear / Aggression / Hyperactivity / Shyness /
Depression / Suicide Attempts AIN'T Genetic Problems,
They're SPIRITUAL PROBLEMS,
Passed On From WON GeneratiHOWEN Of Abuser
To The Next,
Like The 100th Monkey Washin Fruit In The Stream;


After A While It's Not Just NORMAL, It's -OBLIGATORY-


To Do OtherWIZE Would Be
DISRESPECTFUL
Of Your Parental Teachins.


The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME Is the Perfect Synergy Of Love,
Pride, Desire, Shame, Greed, Ego, Fear, Hate, Reflex, Self
Will, Arrogance, Ignorance, Predjudice, Cowardice, Disbelief,
Jealousy, Embarrassment, Embellishment, Guilt, Anger,
Hopelessness, Helplesness, Aversion, Attraction, Inhibition,
Revulsion, Repulsion, Change, Permanence, Enlightenment, Insult,
Attrition And Parental / ReligiHOWES / Societal CONDITIONING;


YOU ARE THE CRITTER YOU WAS TRAINED.


It Is The Perfect Fusion Of The Word..., In The Physical.


There Are NO GRAY AREAS
Between
RIGHT And WRONG.


"Only the unenlightened speak of wisdom and right action
as separate, not the wise.


If any man knows one, he enjoys the fruit of both.


The level which is reached by wisdom
is attained
through right action as well.


He who perceives that the two are one knows the truth."


"Even the wise man acts in character with his nature,
indeed all creatures act according to their natures.


What is the use of compulsion then?


The love and hate which are aroused
by the objects of sense arise from Nature,
do not yield to them.
They only obstruct the path," -
- Bhagavad Gita,
adapted by Krishna with permission
from His OWN FREE copy of The Simply
Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE Wits' End
Dog Training Method manual <{) ; ~ ) >


ALL Temperament And Behavior Problems Are CAUSED BY


MISHANDLING
but as simple as they are we don't think of them first.
Of curse not <{}: ~ ) >

A DOG Is A DOG;
As A KAT Is A KAT;
As A BIRDY Is A BIRDY;
As A GOAT Is A GOAT;
As A FERRET Is A FERRET;
As A MONKEY Is A MONKEY;
As A HORSE Is A HORSE;
As A CHILD IS A CHILD;
As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES;
As A Mass Murderer Is A Mass Murderer.


In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
SAME SAME SAME SAME,
For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.
We try to make it harder than it really is.
INDEEDY~! That's what makes "US" FEEL like we're bein SUCCESSFUL~!
Just think we don't let our kids run over us,
Of curse not~! AS STATED ABOVE <{}: ~ ( >

"As is above, so is below":


Subject: Re: Discipline
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 02:43:46 -0500
From: Amanda <***@dcfwatch.com>
To: "N


On Wednesday 15 January 2003 01:54, "N wrote:


i responded in katie's mail.. youll get it before this one :)
i'm not the expert.. mr. howe is teaching me.. and im figuring
alot out.. plus its just coming to me.. two months ago i would
cry cuz i was soooo lost... and now i go ahead and live it...
like he gave me just enough for my brain to fill in the rest?


when i would swat in my early parent years.. up until i got
crunchy this last year.. i swore spanking was great.. a lil
bit of fear in yo' momma is what i would say.. and my family
supported me.. you can spank and not be abusive.


then i felt guilty... not because i knew better, but becuase
you guys and others did it wihtout spanking.. better than me...
but i would still say i just have bad kids.. then i started
feeling guilty..asked for help.. got some advice and it worked
some.. but not much.. enough to make me think i did it.. then
it wouldn't help..


then i heard him tell someone on the news group:
"Do you think hitting babies is intelligent" and i was
like whoa.. now i feel like cockaroach and pray every
time i distract them that they can somehow grow up
not to hate me..


and i pray i caught myself in enough time.


------------------------
but we will allow our family dog to.
Perhaps THAT'S on accHOWNTA the dog is
willing to DEFEND HISSELF.

That comes from ***HIS*** PARENTAL TEACHINS <{}'; ~ ) >
From our experience with Butch, I would suggest that you start
off by standing your ground with Guiness. So that he knows "I'm
suppose to do what Mom says."
That'll PROVOKE the dog to ATTACK his abuser <{}: ~ ( >
Being a huge Dog Whisperer fan,
As a "HUGE DOG WHEEESPERER FAN", HOWE COME
do you suppHOWES this pathetic ignorameHOWES coward
AIN'T been able to TRAIN his dog not to FEAR and ATTACK him??
I had always had a difficult time completely understanding
what (or actually how to exhibit) "calm assertive energy".
Ah ha~! Seems it's been a life long psychiatric problem <{}: ~ ( >
When Cesar was at our house, I honestly told him that
I didn't understand what he meant by that phrase.
Did the ces pin you to the floor to teach you CALM ASSERTIVENESS?
He helped me to understand it better, by explaining to me.
Oh, he TALKED NICE to you, did he??
In nature if you watch a Mama Dog with her puppies, when we
see a puppy getting on the Mama Dog's nerves she will push
them with her nose or gently snap at them, it gets their
attention and they know "oh, Mama didn't like me playing like
that".
That's only partially correct. Mom dogs can be PSYCHOS, too,
just like mom humans. Studies have shown that abusive mom dogs
are usually the result of abusive owners <{}: ~ ( >
Also think back to when you were a child, you'r mother could
be across the room from you, and see you doing something she
did not approve of.
INDEED?

Perhaps THAT'S on accHOWENTA her EXXXPERTEASE *(dismal failure) as a
competent teacher and parent? OtherWIZE the child woulda
LEARNED HOWE to behave apupriately and be RESPECTFUL of her wishes?
Your mother could give you "that look", without saying a word,
You mean, mom would INTIMIDATE the child <{}: ~ ( >
and you immediately knew "opps, I'm going to get
in trouble if I don't stop".
INDEED? And what kinda trouble would that mean? A spankin? Loss
of PRIVILEDGES? No cookie? Some children DON'T FEAR losin a treat
or bein banished to their crate or goin to bed withHOWET dinner
or gettin a beatin with a heavy man's leather belt <{}: ~ ( >
That energy your mother projected to you from
across the room was "calm assertive energy".
INDEED? And when her "calm assertive energy" runs low,
it becomes a deamonstration of ALPHA LEADERSHIP:

Subject: < BEFORE -> "Jerry, You filthy, Unctuous,
No Good Charlatan,"


< AFTER -> "Thank You Jerry For Putting Up With
A Constant Barrage Of Really Infantile
Crap At The Hands Of Supposedly Adult
Dog Lovers.


'Naive' Is Believing You Can Terrorize
A Dog Into Good Behavior," Robert Crim.
Subject: Re: Fritz---a retrospective
Date: 02/05/1999
You filthy, unctuous, no good charlatan. If you had
any idea of what dogs and dog people were about
you would realize the depths of the absolute loathing
and contempt I hold for you right now. Were it not
for the blessed distance and anonymity that the internet
gives us from the scummy likes of you, I would probably
be in a jail cell right now for turning you into the pile
of shit you really are
Hey, Howe, you really are a wacko, eh?

Crim wrote this about *YOU,* you insipid piece of cow dung!


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
--
Dogman
mailto:***@i1.net
http://www.i1.net/~dogman


=====================
On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:24:15 -0700, dogsnus
Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
come forward and actually believe in his training manual.
Robert Crim writes:


I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs
since I freely admit to having read and, I hope, understood
enough of the manual and it's counterparts by John Fisher
and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe and use it.

This naive child would like to say thank you to both
Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage
of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly
adult dog lovers.


The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the
nagging idea that if people like them had been posting
earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head
of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was
given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he
gasped his last gasp.


To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog.


Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake
names are more honest than people that use their real
names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders
and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.)
are the equal or better than those that have studied and
lived by their craft for decades.


"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are
going to just go away because you people act like fools.


Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I
don't really care.
And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and
actually admit to buying and having success with his
little black box.
I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and
take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and
testing. You would never believe the results, so you'll
never know.
Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming
to him! LOL!
I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve,
eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.
Terri
Yes it was, and that is sad.

Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to
listen to the box first?)


===========


Crim wrote THAT about *YOU,* tommy, "you insipid piece of cow dung!"


BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAAAHAAAHAHAHA!


Abused children often grow up to become SADO-MASOCHISTS
like the ces, who ENJOYS HURTIN and GETTIN HURT, or become
MASS MURDERERS, like Hitler and Eichmann or Ted Bundy, or
child molestors, like John Cooey <{}: ~ ( >


This is going to sound counter-intuitive, but really, you're askin
liars, dog abusers, cowards, and active, accute, chronic, life long
incurable malignant maliciHOWES mental cases who believe
that obedience training with pronged spiked pinch choke and
shock collars, offering and witholding bribes, locking dogs in
boxes and ignoring their cries and spraying aversives in their
faces and surgically sexually mutilating and murdering innocent
defenseless dumb critters is the best thing for him.


These pathetic miserable stinkin rotten lyin animal murderin
mental cases think that suffering CONSEQUENCES will give
him the sense that his behavior controls what happens to him:
"No more random world. He needs a schedule for food, sleep,
outside bathroom breaks, training, and exercise",


DESPITE, THAT:


"Postitive emotions arising in connection
with the perfection of a skill, irrespective
of its pragmatic significance at a given
moment, serve as the reinforcement. IOW,
emotions, not outside rewards, are what
reinforces any behavior," Ivan Pavlov.


DESPITE, THAT:


Sam Corson, Pavlov's Last Student Demonstrated At UofOH,
That Rehabilitation Of Hyperactive Dogs Can Easily And
Readily Be Done Using TLC. Tender Loving Care Is At The
Root Of The Scientific Management Of Doggies.


DESPITE, THAT:


"All animals learn best through play," Lorenz.


DESPITE, THAT:


"Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative
reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY EVERY LEARNING
THEORY model involves the USE OF PUNISHMENT.
Of curse, Skinner has never to my knowledge,
demonstrated HOWE we escape the phenomenon
that an expected reward not received is experienced
as a punishment and can produce extensive and
persistent aggression (Azrin et al, 1966)."


DESPITE, THAT:


"It is NO WONDER that the marked changes in
deviant behavior of children can be achieved
through brief, simple educative routines with
their mothers which modify the mother's social
behaviors shaping the child (Whaler, 1966). Some
clinics have reported ELIMINATION ofthe need for
child THERAPY through changing the clinical emphasis
from clinical to parental HANDLING of the child
(Szrynski 1965).


DESPITE, THAT:


A large number of cases improved sufficiently after
preliminary contact with parents that NO treatment
of children was required, and almost ALL cases
SHOWE a remarkably shortened period for therapy.
Quite severe cases of anorexia nervosa have been
treated in own to five months by simply REPLACING
the parents temporarily with EFFUSIVELY LOVING
SUBSTITUTES (Groen, 1966)."


DESPITE, THAT:


"The IMBECILITY of some of the claims for operant
technique simply take the breath away. Lovas et al
(1966) report a standard contingent reward/punishment
procedure developing imitative speech in two severly
disturbed non verbal schizophrenic boys. After twenty-
six days the boys are reported to have been learning
new words with alacrity. HOWEver, when REWARDS
were moved to a delayed contingency the behavoir and
learning immediately deteriorated.


DESPITE, THAT:


Programs utilizing the "contingencies of reinforcement
model" proposed by Skinner (1963) are no more well
established in research than the various dynamic therapists.
Research in four areas : 1) direct evaluation of programmed
systems for learning; 2) reinforcement; 3) cognitive dissonance;
and 4) motivation, MOST SURELY DEMOLISH the claims
of operant programers."


----------------------


DESPITE ALL THAT, and MORE, these pathetic miserable
stinkin rotten lyin animal murderin mental cases think that they
can jerk choke shock bribe crate intimidate mutilate an murder
innocent defenseless dumb critters with impunity and BLAME
the DOG, the BREED, or the BREEDER for not makin sure he's
"temperamentally sound" when IN FACT, it's their abuse and
insanity that makes dogs and children fearful, aggressive,
hyperactive and neurotic, as their ignorameHOWES abusers
CONtinue to DENY the FACTS.
With Butch, I had to stand in front of him (with Cesar by
my side) place my hands on my hips, look at him without
saying anything and in my mind repeat "you WILL do what I
want you to do". This projected my calm assertive energy
to him.
Oh? Is that PSYCHIC dog trainin?
And Butch would begin sitting for me as if he was asking for
my permission, or he would lay down and submit to me.
Oh, I see, it's intimidation, kinda like HOWE mom taught you
with that evil "glare from across the room" when you was BEIN
BAD.
One of the key tools Chap, Chapin & I learned was how to make
Butch submit to us by rolling him over and holding our thumb
in his neck.
Ahhh, you mean, the SPIRITUAL dog trainin method <{}: ~ ( >

ALL dogs, kats an children are HIGHLY SENSITIVE.


Some words from Dr. Fetko:


"In dog training, Jerk is a noun, not a verb."


We're repeatedly told that dog training requires jerking the dog's
chain choke - or even pinch - collar and to lift and shake them by
the scruff of their necks and pin them on their backs. I've trained
dogs (and many other species) all over the world for decades and
was taught to use those methods nearly 40 years ago. (That's how
up-to-date they are!) But those methods are NOT necessary, nor as
effective or quick as gentler methods. I haven't jerked a collar in
20 years! All good training is based upon trust and respect; how
does a social mammal trust or respect someone who jerks, hangs or
pins it?"


Dr. Fetko's Philosophy:
http://www.drdog.com/


Dogs are like wet cement - whatever touches them makes a lasting
impression. So please make every touch loving.


The following quotes are from Dr. Dennis Fetko, noted
veterinary behaviorist and EXXXPERT COURT WITNESS:


ABUSE


While testifying at a California State Senate Hearing, I was asked
to define abuse. One I offered: Unnecessary physical or psychological
force in excess of what is required to achieve the goal. This, and
others I stated, were accepted by the entire Hearing panel.


I have disabled clients and I've known severe physical compromise.
If one can train dogs successfully without jerking collars, pinning,
hanging or scruffing, then doing so is, by definition, abuse. Why
pay someone to abuse your dog? Besides, must you really pay for
that level of input? Like you'd never have thought of that on your
own!


When 88% of the adult dogs I'm paid to train have already been
professionally trained, something's wrong. You pay good money for
professional advice; get it.


LEGAL WORK


Formerly San Diego's Dispute Resolutions Officer, I've qualified in
criminal and civil courts representing both plaintiffs and
defendants as an expert in animal training and behavior, abuse,
aggression, "collecting" and animal nuisances dozens of times for
many years. I'm in legal demand because, with my background and
extensive hands-on experience, my testimony is very difficult to
rebut. Contact me if you, your attorney or someone you know is ever
involved in a legal case involving animals."


And Jerry also HAS similar expert witness testimony
experience, and Jerry WILL TESTIFY for FREE.


Dr. Fetko's TRAINING METHODS:


My methods are practical, gentle and successful because working with
animals is not academic or secondary to me, it's WHAT I DO!
Like you, I hear and read strange things about animals, training and
behavior. But having done it full time for many years, I know what
works.


Methods have effects no one talks about. I say: "Jerk is a noun, not
a verb" and "Nothing with a pulse belongs on a chain" because I
haven't jerked collars or used chains in decades - and I do this
every day, sometimes with very unfriendly dogs! Have you ever been
to Sea World? Who jerks Shamu? If we can train huge feral predators
to a high level of safe performance without active physical
reprimands, HOW DARE WE tell you to jerk your dog's neck?!


Ever notice that people with "bad memories" know all the words to
dozens of songs? That's because music and singing are FUN! A fun,
playful, relaxed attitude is very conducive to learning. Why do we
remember the alphabet forever but forget the times table immediately
after the exam? Because we SANG, PLAYED and ACTED OUT the alphabet!


It was FUN and GAMES!


Then why make dog training hard, negative work for your dog? Our
own experience (and much research) clearly demonstrates that a
harsh approach inhibits learning and retards memory, yet many
people jerk lessons into dogs and drill them until they rebel. WHY?
(sounds just like Jerry so far...)


Anyone who doesn't know the difference between a boss and a bully
shouldn't touch anything with a pulse. We've all had bad experiences
with bullies; why pay someone to bully your dog and, even worse,
make you do so? (sounds a little light compared to Jerry... Jerry's
gonna put you outta business.)


If you take a dog through training and it's much better on lead than
off it, WHY? It's the same you, the same dog and the same command;
why is it better on lead than loose?


The main reason is that most training teaches the
dog to fear the equipment, not respect the handler.


"Without the equipment, you can't do bad things to me -
so leave a note!"


---------------------


Bye the bye, the alphalpha roll, pupularized by job
michael evans of the monkeys of not so new skeete
had been RENOUNCED by himself, as the MOST
REGRETABLE MISTAKE of his career, and shortly
pryor to his demise, recommended that NO WON
DO THAT, on accHOWENTA it's WRONG:

Date: 1999/01/15
Subject: Re: Another mouthy lab


Get this book:


"The Art of Raising A Puppy," by the Monks of New Skete


If you can't find it locally, you can obtain it
through my Web site (see below).


You'll need it for more than just the usual puppy
"mouthing" problems, anyway.


And good luck with your Lab puppy!
--
Dogman


------------------


EFFECTIVE NON PHYSICAL SCIENTIFIC and
PSYCHOLOGICAL Pavlovian and Ericksonian
CONditioning AIN'T a matter of LUCK; "LUCK is
for SUCKERS. NEVER make a SUCKER'S BET,"
The Puppy Wizard's DADDY <{}'; ~ ) >

From: Tara <***@verizon.net>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 17:58:51 GMT


Subject: Re: good dog training books?


I've personally seen their methods (as applied by
them) NOT work on dogs they themselves have bred.


IMO, their methods actually made the underlying
problems *worse*. In three cases, where they both
bred and trained the dogs, they subsequently washed
their hands of the dogs and suggested euthanasia....
and then promptly tried to talk the owners into taking
another one of their own pups.


<snip>


Since I have serious issues and doubts about the
practices and ethics of the Monks, I obviously
only support the latter two ;-)


Tara


From: ***@deltaville.net (Michael Erskine)
Date: 12 Aug 2004 10:09:05 -0700


Subject: My GSD bit me.
The question:


I have a four year old male GSD. He growls at
me sometimes. When he growls at me he stares me
in the face and lays his ears back.


The New Skete books say that the dog should not be
allowed to do that. They suggest shaking down the
dog by grabing the dog on the sides of his neck and
picking him off his front feet, then giving the dog the
same sort of treatment the dog would give another if
it were challenging him.


Namely getting in the dogs face and letting
the dog know you are the alpha dog.


Well, my dog bit me clearly he felt that I was not
convincing enough or he bit me out of fear.


Anyone got ideas on what to do with this dog that might
help him to decide that he wants to follow and that he
has nothing to fear from me?


----------------------


From: Charlie Wilkes <***@users.easynews.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 17:21:14 GMT
Subject: Re: My GSD bit me.


You need to improve your acting skills. Get a werewolf
suit with blood-drenched fangs and claw gloves and THEN
go after your dog.


Knock the shit out of him and don't be afraid to crack
some ribs. Then yank the mask off and shout "SURPRISE!
IT'S ME!" I guarantee you and your dog will have a new
relationship based on mutual respect.


Keep in mind that the monks of New Skete were pre-Lon-Chaney.


Charlie


-----------------------


Are we havin FUN yet?
Honestly, it took Cesar about 30 minutes in the begining to
win this battle, and I had to leave the room because of the
fight between the two.
That's INSANE, CRIMINAL behavior <{}: ~ ( >
Cesar said Butch was like a gladiator, and he really was.
The abuses z dog wheeesperer "teaches" would violate the Geneva
CONvention agreements for dealin with prisoners of war <{}: ~ ( >
After "war", Butch accepted the fact that he was not
going to win and rule Cesar.
the ces is a COWARD. I'd LOVE to see him abuse some
of the Great Danes and English Mastiffs I've trained.
But to this day, if Butch begins to revert back
to his "selfish ways"
You mean, like HOWE he was PRYOR to his REHABILITATION?
or try to test his leadership position
Does Butch try to access your bank accHOWENT or take the car?
with us, we flip him, roll him over
place our thumb in his neck.
Ahhh, That's The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
Amazing, Majestic Grand Master Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy,
Goat, Ferret, Monkey, SpHOWES, And Horsey Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FAVORITE METHOD for dealin
with dangerHOWES human opponents <{}: ~ ) >

IT WORKS JUST LIKE FREAKIN MAGICK. HOWEver, you
MUST NEVER TURN YOUR BACK ON THEM otherWIZE
they're likely to GET EVEN.
It is his "attitude adjustment",
But only WHEN NECESSARY, ain't that CORRECT?
so that he remembers "they're the pack
leader and I'm the follower".
If the ces's METHOD WORKED, your dog WOULDN'T NEED constant,
intermittent "REMINDERS" of "WHO'S THE BOSS," like an abusive
mother.

He'd RESPECT your gentle authority and WIZE leadership.


WOULDN'T HE <{}: ~ ( >
If we have trouble again with the hoses, we do this and while
he is down we will put the hose, broom, whatever the item is,
next to him, touch him with it while he is submissive so he
knows that he can be around it and everything is ok.
Oh, to teach Butch that the hose or broom is ALPHA <{}: ~ ) >

THAT'S INSANE.
Once he gets up he doesn't want anything else to do with it.
Naaah?
Cesar actually told us, that a dog in the total submissive
position is the most relax a dog will ever be in.
THAT'S INSANE. And it's DEAD WRONG. If you did a physiological
scan you'd SEE the dog was in a state of NEURO PSYCHOGENIC
SHOCK, JUST LIKE HOWE my HUMAN subject is when I GRAB
HIM bythe throat an show him HOWE COME he should act RESPECTFUL.
You dog wants nothing more than to please you,
INDEED?

Not so handsome, not so gentle, not so manly, not so
happy jackass not even morrison aka dogman aka BIG
DADDY tommy sorenson sez:


"I don't know how big you are, kiddo, so this may
not be as easy for you as it is for me, but use
a little "knee action," that is, as the dog goes
charging by you, just give the dog a little bop
with your knee and shin. Yep, really lean into it.


Even knock her over, if you can, but make sure to
make her think twice about rushing past you again -
- which is exactly what you want her to do.


Don't bother with scolding her, she'll get the message.


If it happens again, just REPEAT the knee action.


When she steps on your toes, just pick up your foot
abruptly and nudge her with your knee. Again, no
scolding is necessary here, so you don't have to
worry about her "over-reacting."


I don't think this is necessarily a lack of respect
for you, just a lack of training. That is, she just
needs *more* of it."


"My objective is always to find a way that WORKS.
And if it is DANGEROUS behavior that I'm trying
to modify, behavior than can get the dog KILLED,
I will resort to ANYTHING to save him.


A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G.


Okay. Call me a cruel, inhumane, abusive bastard
if you want to, but it doesn't affect me at all.
When you've saved the lives of as many dogs as I
have, you'll learn that that's the only thing that
really matters. Saving lives and making dogs become
good citizens


At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a
dog. A swat on the rump or a check to the chin does
*not* constitute a "beating."


"This, from a yellow-bellied coward who has TOTALLY refused
to engage me in debate, preferring mudslinging, hyperbole,
distortion, lies, exaggeration, and to take Koehler completely
out of context, instead," From: ***@i1.net (Dogman) Date:


1997/11/11


Subject: Re: Koehler's Usefulness--A Concluding Assessment


BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!


=====================


That's a curiHOWES way to show him you're PLEASED <{}: ~ ( >
but if your showing him your afraid
The ONLY REASON I've EVER grabbed a HUMAN by the throat
was on accHOWENTA I WAS AFRAID of them, on accHOWENTA
they was bein a THREAT. OtherWIZE I'd simply tell them
they should act NICE and THEY WOULD, just like any dog
kat or child <{}: ~ ) >

WOULDN'T THEY <{}: ~ ) >
then it makes him very confused.
Oh? You think the dog ATTACKS his "MASTER" on accHOWENTA
he's CONfHOWENDED? NO, he TURNS on his ABUSER on accHOWENTA HE'S
DEATHLY AFRAID, the SAME REASON I've
ever had for attackin a HUMAN in the same manner <{}: ~ ( >
My biggest fear was that Butch would bite me
INDEED? And the ces KNOWS THAT, and THAT'S HOWE COME
he gets away with teachin DECENT PEOPLE to ABUSE their dogs
and children <{}: ~ ( >

cesar millan is a dog and child abusin misogynist, coward, and sissy.


Watch Yourself On South Park:


Tsst! part 1 Tsst! South Park DOG WHISPERER:



South Park DOG WHISPERER part 2/2:



South Park DOG WHISPERER PACK LEADER:



and Chap would give him to the Bulldog Rescue
So, your spHOWES would GET RID or YOUR dog? Most so
called RESCUES MURDER dogs who attack PEOPLE <{}: ~ ( >
and my dreams of having a Bulldog would be over.
So, you've bought into a "METHOD" which uses fear force
intimidation and witholding ATTENTION and AFFECTION to
elicit UNCONDITIONAL LOVE, TRUST, and RESPECT?

Dogs THAT make sense on ANY level??
I know how you feel,
Perhaps if you'd stop THINKIN with your FEELINS you'd
develop the INTELLECTUAL capacity to stop usin FEAR
FORCE INTIMIDATION and PUNISHMENT and learn
the SCIENCE of behavior to teach your dog to TRUST you
enough so's IT WON'T ATTACK YOU when you SCARE
him or withold his STUFF?
and I hope that Butch's story can be an encouragement
to you so that you can over come your fear of your dog.
Of curse, if you didn't FEAR your dog or child's behaviors
you'd NEVERY HURT them.

WOULD YOU <{}: ~ ( >


On accHOWENTA that'd be INSANE behavior.


WOULDN'T IT <{}'; ~ ) >


---------------


"The day may come when the rest of the animal creation
may acquire those rights
which never could have been withholden from them
but by the hand of tyranny.
The question is not can they REASON,
nor can they TALK,
but can they SUFFER?" -
- Jeremy Bentham


"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised
for the good of its victims,
may be the most oppressive.
Those who torment us for our own good
will torment us without end,
for they do so with the approval of
their own conscience." -
- C.S. Lewis.


"Death is better, a milder fate than tyranny",
Aeschylus (525BC-456BC),
Agamemnon.


"Only the unenlightened speak of wisdom and right action
as separate, not the wise.


If any man knows one, he enjoys the fruit of both.


The level which is reached by wisdom
is attained
through right action as well.


He who perceives that the two are one knows the truth."


"Even the wise man acts in character with his nature,
indeed all creatures act according to their natures.


What is the use of compulsion then?


The love and hate which are aroused
by the objects of sense arise from Nature,
do not yield to them.
They only obstruct the path," -
- Bhagavad Gita,
adapted by Krishna with permission
from His OWN FREE copy of The Simply
Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE Wits' End
Dog Training Method manual <{) ; ~ ) >


=====================


The Methods, Principles And Philosophy Of Behavior
Never Change,
Or They'd Not Be Scientific
And Could Not Obtain
Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Effective, Safe Results
For All Handler's And All Critters,
And ALL Behaviors
In ALL FIELDS And ALL UTILITIES,
ALL OVER The Whole Wild World,
NEARLY INSTANTLY,
As Taught In Your Own FREE Copy Of
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
A-M-A-Z-I-N-G
M-A-J-E-S-T-I-C
G-R-A-N-D
M-A-S-T-E-R
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey
SpHOWES And Horsey Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
***FREE***
WWW Wits' End Dog, Child, Kat, Goat, Ferret, Monkey
SpHOWES And Horsey
Training Method Manual<{) ; ~ )>


All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer


"Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
even tho it's a hopeless task,
in this system of things.
As long as man is ruling man,
there will be animals (and humans!)
abused and neglected. :-(
Your student," Juanita.


"If you've got them by the balls
their hearts and minds
will follow,"
John Wayne.


"Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens!"
"Against stupidity the Gods themselves contend in vain!"
-Friedrich Schiller.


INDEEDY.


AND THAT'S HOWE COME THEY GOT ME NHOWE!


In Love And Light,
I Remain Respectfully, Humbly Yours,
The World's CRUELEST Trainer
Jerry Howe,
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
A-M-A-Z-I-N-G
*M-A-J-E-S-T-I-C* *G-R-A-N-D* *M-A-S-T-E-R*
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Ferret, Goat, Monkey
SpHOWES And Horsey Wizard <{) ;~ ) >


HOWE MAY I SERVE YOU <{}; ~ ) >


Sincerely,
Jerry Howe,
Director of Research,
Human And Animal Behavior
Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory,
BIOSOUND Scientific,
Director of Training,
Wits' End Dog Training
1611 24th St
Orlando, FL 32805
Phone: 1-407-425-5092 (Call ANY TIME)
http://www.freewebs.com/thesimplyamazingpuppywizard


E-mail:


Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
@HotMail.Com


Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
@HotMail.Com


TheSimplyAmazingPuppyWizard @HotMail.Com


,-._,-,
V)"(V
(_o_) Have a great day!
/ V)
(l l l) Your Puppy Wizard. <{YPW} ; ~ } >
oo-oo
Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
2009-03-18 15:33:03 UTC
Permalink
HOWEDY Reginald,
Since i got the new pup a few weeks ago i have
been watching these Dog TV Shows like
There's some EXXXCELLENT videos below:

From: The_800_Pound_Gorilla_In_The_Room @HotMail.com
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008

Subject: Re: Dog Whisperer's Pit Bulls????

HOWEDY brian k,
Just how much control would Caesar have over his PB's
in a situation where 2 or 3 of his pack got into a fight?
If the ces doesn't get CON-TROLL of his "pack" NEARLY
INSTANTLY, it's The Big Brown River for him, for SHORE.
Instinct takes over in a pack and it would be a frenzy.
There's been rumors of that happening <{}: ~ ) >
The rest of the pack would NOT just stand around and
watch quietly, at least that is what I've seen of pack
behavior.
That's correct.
That's why they call it a "pack", remember?
INDEEDY~!
Caesar is terrific,
the ces is a dog and child and spouse abusin COWARD
and FRAUD.
but I do not think he should take visitors into his pack
of PB's as a demonstration. There's just no way he could
break up a pack fight empty handed and protect his visitors.
If you'd notice, the ces WARNS visitors NOT to talk to or touch
any of his dogs and he ALWAYS INTIMDIATES the dogs FIRST
as they approach. If the ces's dogs was pupperly TRAINED and IF he had
CON-TROLL over his pack he WOULDN'T NEED to CONSTANTLY THREATEN THEM.
My only gripe with C.
Yeah? Well WHERE do you think he GOT that PACK?

They're ALL his FLUNKY "student's" dogs. He didn't go
RESCUE them from the slums, he "TRAINED" their owners
and THEY COULDN'T SUCCESSFULLY INTIMIDATE
their own dogs IN REAL LIFE. Nearly EVERY dog he's
"trained" on his show NEEDS CONSTANT JERKING
CHOKING and INTIMIDATION.


DOGS DIE from that kind of FEAR and INTIMIDATION.


Ask Butch <{}: ~ ( >


cesar's way: R.I.P. Butch <{}:* ~ ( >


http://tinyurl.com/3ymr73
-
The Anti-cesar:
http://youtu.be/hKAgupEhU8w


"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims,
may be the most oppressive. Those who torment us for our own
good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their
own conscience," C.S. Lewis.

"Death is better, a milder fate than tyranny," Aeschylus (525BC)
http://www.freewebs.com/thesimplyamazingpuppywizard
There IS an episode where there are about a dozen pits
together in order for a client to face her fear of them. They
did get in a scuffle, just as any group of dogs can, and
Cesar immediately got them under control without any
problem. Now, if it was someone else's pack?
I've kept packs of 20 TRAINED ATTACK dogs who
NEVER fight.
It may have been more difficult but his dogs
know, love, and respect him. ;o)
That's a load of CRAP. the ces HURTS and INTIMDIATES
his dogs.
Another reason why it works is Cesar has taken the
time to learn how dogs communicate with each other.
the ces, ACCORDING TO HIS BOOK, learned EVERY
THING he knows about dogs from his GRANDMOTHER.

It's all FAERIE TAILS.


There AIN'T NO SCIENCE to his "psychology", it's ALL
FEAR FORCE and INTIMIDATION <{}: ~ ( >


He's a DOG ABUSER a FRAUD and a COWARD.
When Cesar holds a dog prone on the ground with a
hand about the throat, this is natural amongst canines.
That so? That's MY FAVORITE move against a HUMAN enemy.
It works JUST LIKE FREAKIN MAGICK. HOWEver, when that
person gets up, they MAY come LOOKIN for me so I'm ALWAYS prepared to SHOOT
the S.O.B. the next time <{}: ~ ) >
I've been to a wolf research center and seen
Minnesota Gray Wolves do the same thing.
You mean they operate based on FEAR FORCE and INTIMIDATION.
I've watched mother dogs and mother wolves give their
pups a little touch with open jaws when the pups step
out of line.
the ces teaches his "students" to use their hands like a mom
dog's mouth and give their dogs a BITE. THAT'S INSANE.
Anyone who calls it torture just isn't as in touch with canine behavior.
You're a dog abusin punk coward, brian k, you pathetic sissy.
Be it a wolf or dog who's out of line, you can't exactly
apply Adlerian psychology (let the behavior continue until it
extinguishes itself) or group therapy to a disgruntled bunch
of Pekingese.
Of curse not~! You'd have to rely on EFFECTIVE SCIENTIFIC
Pavlovian and Ericksonian CONditioning <{}: ~ ( >
--
________
To email me, Edit "blog" from my email address.
Brian M. Kochera
"Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once!"
View My Web Page: http://home.earthlink.net/~brian1951
You're a FRUITCAKE <{}: ~ ( >

HERE'S THE FACTS:


HOWEDY cjanderson,
This is abuse?
INDEEDY~!

Here's the RESULT of the ces's "PSYCHOLGICAL
dog trainin" bleedin the SPIRIT HOWETA him:


http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x272/
TheIncrediblySimplyAmazingPuppyWizard/?action=view&current=cesarengbullhoseBITE.jpg

Dogs GET MURDERED over attackin their handlers.
I'm surprised because you have really
good videos about other abuses.
INDEEDY. the ces gets attacked more often in a WON
HOWER episode than I have in forty years specializing
in temperament and behavior problem modification in
mostly giant breed working dogs and protection dog
training <{}: ~ ( >
In Denver over 1100 dogs of this breed have been ripped
from Owner's home and euthanized when they did nothing
wrong except being born wrong breed?
Well then, blame the "TRAINERS" like z dog wheeesperer
who's crude, cruddy, backwards, backwoods, vulgar, archaic,
barbaric, viciHOWES, ignorameHOWES, INEFFECTIVE,
abusive methods that have set the dog behavior industry
back fifty years and are responsible for the racist Pit Bull
breed ban legislation / media hysteria <{}: ~ ( >
This family said they were not going to keep
Butch if he didnt change!
Where do you suppHOWES the ces got all his thirty
sumpthin RESCUED dogs in his PSYCHOLOGY CENTER??:

Adventures Of Z Dog Wheeesperer <{}: ~ ) >
z dog wheeesperer
Takes On Red Zone Cases:
"Dog Aggression"
Curley, Razor, And Baxter


http://groups.google.com/group/rec.pets.dogs.behavior/browse
_frm/thread/7d526ffd7367223b/a35e7f1ccb46dccf?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=%22musical+dogs%22#a35e7f1ccb46dccf

OR:

http://tinyurl.com/2rvu23

ALL aggression is FEAR.

ALL FEAR is CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.

So, because some people are AFRAID of their dogs,
dogs whom they've PROBABLY inadvertently ABUSED
on the instruction of PROFESSIONAL DOG TRAINERS
and university trained behaviorists, that, in *your* opinion,
justifies bullying and intimidating dogs into submission or
until they TURN ON THEM??:

"It is by muteness that a dog becomes
so utterly beyond value."


Like a confessor Priest?


"With him, words play no torturing tricks..., "
--John Galsworthy.


Don't bet your dog won't tell on you...
Their behaviors reflect
HOWER words, actions and training quirks.
Jerry HOWE, The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >


Oh, EXXXCUSE ME~! I meant to say they deamonstrated
their calm submissive energy through leadership.


DESPITE THAT:


"Postitive emotions arising in connection
with the perfection of a skill, irrespective
of its pragmatic significance at a given
moment, serve as the reinforcement. IOW,
emotions, not outside rewards, are what
reinforces any behavior," Ivan Pavlov.


DESPITE THAT:


Sam Corson, Pavlov's Last Student Demonstrated At UofOH,
That Rehabilitation Of Hyperactive Dogs Can Easily And
Readily Be Done Using TLC. Tender Loving Care Is At The
Root Of The Scientific Management Of Doggies.


DESPITE THAT:


"All animals learn best through play," Lorenz.


DESPITE THAT:


"Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative
reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY EVERY LEARNING
THEORY model involves the USE OF PUNISHMENT.
Of curse, Skinner has never to my knowledge,
demonstrated HOWE we escape the phenomenon
that an expected reward not received is experienced
as a punishment and can produce extensive and
persistent aggression (Azrin et al, 1966)."


B.F. Skinner: Re-evaluation of Punishment


Punishment, unfortunately traditionally overused,
actually has been proven not effective at long-
term behavioral change, and creatures will find
other ways of getting what it wants. In "Freedom
and the control of men" American Scholar, Winter
1955-56, 25, 47-65. 1956 he states:


If we no longer resort to torture in what we call
the civilized world, we nevertheless still make
extensive use of punitive techniques in both
domestic and foreign relations. And apparently for
good reasons. Nature if not God has created man
in such a way that he can be controlled punitively.


People quickly become skillful punishers (if not,
thereby, skillful controllers), whereas alternative
positive measures are not easily learned.


The need for punishment seems to have the support
of history, and alternative practices threaten the
cherished values of freedom and dignity.


Fear involved with punishment causes frustration:
with typical results loathing, hostility and apathy.
Skinner's teaching on the superiority of posittive
reinforcement's benefits for keeping desired behavior
have proved very valuable.


----------------------------


DESPITE THAT:


"It is NO WONDER that the marked changes in
deviant behavior of children can be achieved
through brief, simple educative routines with
their mothers which modify the mother's social
behaviors shaping the child (Whaler, 1966). Some
clinics have reported ELIMINATION ofthe need for
child THERAPY through changing the clinical emphasis
from clinical to parental HANDLING of the child
(Szrynski 1965).


DESPITE THAT:


A large number of cases improved sufficiently after
preliminary contact with parents that NO treatment
of children was required, and almost ALL cases
SHOWE a remarkably shortened period for therapy.
Quite severe cases of anorexia nervosa have been
treated in own to five months by simply REPLACING
the parents temporarily with EFFUSIVELY LOVING
SUBSTITUTES (Groen, 1966)."


DESPITE THAT:


"The IMBECILITY of some of the claims for operant
technique simply take the breath away. Lovas et al
(1966) report a standard contingent reward/punishment
procedure developing imitative speech in two severly
disturbed non verbal schizophrenic boys. After twenty-
six days the boys are reported to have been learning
new words with alacrity. HOWEver, when REWARDS
were moved to a delayed contingency the behavoir and
learning immediately deteriorated.


DESPITE THAT:


Programs utilizing the "contingencies of reinforcement
model" proposed by Skinner (1963) are no more well
established in research than the various dynamic therapists.
Research in four areas : 1) direct evaluation of programmed
systems for learning; 2) reinforcement; 3) cognitive dissonance;
and 4) motivation, MOST SURELY DEMOLISH the claims
of operant programers."


----------------------


YOU WANT MORE SCIENCE??


Or do you PREFER usin z dog wheeesperer's "PSYCHOLOGY"?
Cesar's way has saved thousands from death!
cesar is a dog abusin coward who's viciHOWES attacks
on innocent defenseless dumb critters publicized by
National Geographic T.V. has raped the minds of gulible

ignorameHOWESES who've been TAUGHT to believe that
you can BEAT CHOKE SHOCK and INTIMIDATE innocent
defenseless dumb critters *(like the Iraqis) to accept your brand
of PSYCHOLOGICAL LEADERSHIP.
On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:24:15 -0700, dogsnus
Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
come forward and actually believe in his training manual.
Robert Crim writes:


I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs
since I freely admit to having read and, I hope, understood
enough of the manual and it's counterparts by John Fisher
and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe and use it.

This naive child would like to say thank you to both
Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage
of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly
adult dog lovers.


The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the
nagging idea that if people like them had been posting
earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head
of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was
given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he
gasped his last gasp.


To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog.


Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake
names are more honest than people that use their real
names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders
and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.)
are the equal or better than those that have studied and
lived by their craft for decades.


"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are
going to just go away because you people act like fools.


Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I
don't really care.
And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and
actually admit to buying and having success with his
little black box.
I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and
take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and
testing. You would never believe the results, so you'll
never know.
Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming
to him! LOL!
I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve,
eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.
Terri
Yes it was, and that is sad.

Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to
listen to the box first?)


===========
Butch wasnt harmed in any way,
DOGS DIE from that kind of ABUSE.
became a perfect dog until death by heart attack.
LIKE THAT~!

BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!


HERE'S HOWE COME - HERE'S THE SCIENCE:


In the followin SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH STUDY, you may
substitute pronged spiked pinch or slip choke collars
for shock and add PUNISHMENT, SCOLDING and witholding
attention and affection:


Psychological Effects


At issue is the question, --Do electronic training
devices elicit psychological responses?


"This section cites several research studies in which the
psychological impact of the use of electronic training devices
was analyzed. It is difficult, at best, for anyone to determine
the full psychological effect of these devices or training methods
until we can agree on exactly what constitutes a stress signal in
a domestic dog. Not only do none of the researchers agree on
what it is, but it varies from dog to dog.


It is even more difficult for humans to determine the full effect
of shock on a dog (or any animal) due to the animal's hard-wired
need to hide pain in order to survive in the wild.

Training dogs with the help of the shock collar: Short and long
term behavioral effects. (Schilder, M. & van der Borga, J. (2004).
Applied Animal Behavior Science, 85, 319-334).


The goal of this study was to determine the behavioral changes in dogs
during training using electronic training collars. Thirty-
two dogs were divided into two groups, each receiving both
general obedience and protection training.

One group was trained with shock collars and the other group
without shock collars. The dogs trained with the shock collars
displayed signs of stress: lowering of body posture, high-pitched
yelps, barks and squeals, avoidance, redirected aggression, and
tongue flicking.

It was also noted by the authors that, even during play and relaxed walking,
the group of dogs trained with shock collars
continued to show signs of stress while in the company of
their handler.

The authors concluded that shock-collar training is stressful;
receiving shocks is a painful experience to dogs; and the shock
group of dogs evidently learned that the presence of their owner
(or his commands) announced the reception of shocks, even
outside of the normal training context.


They suggest that the welfare of these shocked dogs is at
stake, at least in the presence of their owners.


This study has come under considerable fire because the experience of the
handlers and dogs is not clear, and the
level of shock is not stated. With that said, it does suggest
that dogs are stressed by the experience of being shocked during training.

---------------------
Pls read followup on page 227in the DW Episode Guide Book out now.
Here's Sunshine, The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely
Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master Puppy, Child, Pussy,
Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey, SpHOWES, And Horsey Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Training Method Manual Student, bein
TRAINED to not obsess over the hose:

http://youtu.be/hKAgupEhU8w


HE AIN'T GONNA HAVE NO DOGDAMENED HEART ATTACK!
Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
2009-03-20 00:52:04 UTC
Permalink
HOWEDY taragreen2, you pathetic miserable
stinkin rotten lyin animal murderin punk thug
coward active acute chronic life-long INCURABLE
DRUNKEN DRUG ADDICTED MENTAL CASE
and PROFESSIONAL OBEDIENCE TRAINER,
Why are you so averse to trying to train a dog in the way Jerry does?
taragreen2 fancies herself to be a GREAT COMMUNICATOR:
DOGS DIE ON ACCHONWETA
ABUSERS LIKE YOU TARA GREEN 2:


Subject: puppy behavior


31From: tarag
Date: Tues, Aug 10 1999 12:00 am
Email: "tarag" <***@gateway.net>


I always find it interesting (and very sad) when dog
trainers who are strong propponents (and rightly so)
of humane methods don't apply that information to
their dealings with other people.


ANY time abuse or harsh treatment is used - whether
to a dog or a human, or any being for that matter -
the message is lost and only hurt, confusion and
anger result. The REALLY sad part is that, in the
bickering back and forth, the original problem that
the dogs owner asked for help with became secondary
to other peoples doctrines and egos.


I wonder how much Dan was actually helped
by some of those postings.


A really wise trainer told me when I was studying
that "There are usually 2 types of people who become
dog trainers: those with a desperate need to control,
and those with a desperate need to communicate".


In all honesty, I think I started training for the
former reason, but I take great pains to try and
shift my focus to the latter. I find it is the only
productive way.


You can't help a dog if you piss of the owner.


------------------


You mean like Muttley, taragreen2?


IT'S OVER, taragreen2. The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual
Students REPORT CURING ALL temperament and
behavior problems NEARLY INSTANTLY, and you
punk thug coward mental cases call them liars
and play silly games WARNING folks NOT TO BELIEVE
them, tarag.


You punk thug coward mental cases have been IDENTIFIED
EXXXPOSED and DISCREDITED twenty ways to the middle
BY QUOTING YOUR OWN WORDS.
Because most of us use methods that are actually far kinder and less
stressful on dogs than Jerry's.
But of curse~!

YOUR "LEAVE IT" COMMAND, please, tara?
Almost NONE of us have ever spiked a
dog's temperature to dangerous levels.
Oh, you mean LIKE THIS?:



"Amy Dahl" <***@oakhillkennel.com> wrote in message news:***@oakhillkennel.com...

Studies from the Sports MEdicine center at Auburn
indicate that the temperature of a working Lab routinely
rises to 106 in the course of about ten minutes' work.
The dog then needs to cool off as sustained high
temperature can be dangerous.

Amy Dahl

--------------------------

The REASON The Amazing Puppy Wizard's McProtection
Trained dogs spike a 106F temp is on accHOWENT of they
FEAR for their kindly, gentle handler's being ABUSED by the
BONA FIDE MENTAL CASE aggitators we present them with
in trainin.

Your PAL lying frosty's dahl's dogs spike a 106F
temp on accHOWENT of they're likeWIZE AFRAID,
but only AFRAID of GETTIN SHOCKED CHOKED
and BEATEN WITH STICKS someMOORE, as she
DENIES yet teaches us HOWE to DO it.

LIKE THIS:

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "CourteHOWES Canine."

"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?

When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first
time, spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth
and walk away. The dog won't be too thrilled with
this but just ignore him and continue your normal
behavior."
--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"CourteHOWES Canines"

"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A Dog
I Do Not Believe There Is A Single Circumstance
Ever, Where Slapping A Dog Is Anything But
Destructive," "I don't see why anyone would want
to choke or beat a dog, or how any trainer could
possibly get a good working dog by making them
unhapper, fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying
frosty dahl.

lying frosty dahl sez she doesn't twist:
"None of my posts, prior to or subsequent to
Jerry Howe's attacks, encourage anyone to
twist ears, beat dogs, confront, intimidate,
frighten, or any of the crap he constantly
attributes to me," lying frosty dahl.

Borrowed from: "Puppy Raising Tips" from
professional trainers, John and Amy Dahl.

"Around four months many puppies can withstand a
correction. Unfortunately this is the time they start
teething and if their mouth hurts, they may act
generally sensitive. If this is the case, be patient and
wait for all those baby teeth to fall out.

In training, retrievers often respond to physical correction
better than verbal correction. While "NO!" is extremely
useful if puppy is about to bite an electrical cord or steal
food off the table, when you are teaching them something
(like obedience) a sharp jerk on their lead or swat with a
stick gets the message across with less emotion and less
effect on their confidence.

If they drop the dummy and act like their mouth hurts
when they are teething, stop all retrieving and wait for
their mouth to feel better. A correction should be just
severe enough to get the dog to respond.

Repeated weak corrections are very stressful to the dog."

================

lying frosty dahl, oakhill kennels wrote:
Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper wield
the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them
more sharply

Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and
the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist!
Eventually, the dog will give in

but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their
efforts to escaping the ear pinch

You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell
instead of your thumb even get a studded collar
and pinch the ear against that

Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so
urgent that resisting your will fades in importance.

CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever Ready
Right Hand, As it catches on, try using the stick
and no ear pinch.

When the dog is digging out to beat the stick
and seems totally reliable without any ear pinch,
you are finished

If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin,
say "No! Hold!"

(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps because
the ear is getting tender, or the dog has decided
it isn't worth it)" lying frosty dahl.

"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap,"
professora gingold.

terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context, because you
are full of bizarro manure."

"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.

------------------

SEE?
But Jerry has bragged about his methods
doing that regularly.
No, I mentioned it ONLY WON time, in "McProtection
Training" on accHOWENTA it's simply a interesting
FACT, and not really important <{}: ~ ) >

mary beth and her MENTAL CASE PALS brought it up
every time, even AFTER the SCIENCE *you* IGNORE
was presented by Misty:

Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001
Subject: Re: Misty???? - Care to quote the abuse in McProtection?

Hello marybeth,
"Check its temperature with a rectal thermometer
as soon as you finish the run. Dogs routinely have temperatures of 103 to
106 degrees F while running,
so don't be surprised by this (normal is 101 to 102 degrees F)."
Do note, when all of this started we asked for about a year or so, how
he achieved this whole S & S, and he never told us about how he took the
temp,
So what? You never pointed out the abusive parts
of my Mc Protection Training Method <{}: ~ ( >
with diarrhea running from the dogs' bums,
Sounds like you're in your element, marybeth.
or if/when he took it.
What difference does it make? The whole discussion
came up over your pal lying"I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn
saying she didin't see HOWE I could train protection
dogs without flanking or switching or beating them
to PROOF them for protection work.

REMEMBER?
Two minutes into the exercise, where he claims they have loose bowels, and
spike up there to 106??
That's the way it is if you know what you're doing.
Or even if he checked them after the 8 minutes they were up there.
Back in your element again, mb?
A VERY long time to have such a highly elevated temp.
What are you talking about, mb? You're a liar.

You defend hurting dogs to train them, and you
think this is something that shows I'm vicious,
and that someHOWE mitigates YOU and your
THUG pals?

Get the heel outta here.

You're beating a dead horse, mb.

You and your MENTAL CASE pals are proven, lying,
dog abusing Thugs, and that's the end of the story.
Note, NOT building up thru strenuous exercise but
by the owners always being totally nice to the dogs,
NEVER exposing them to ANY threats.
How deluded can one be??? <sheesh> No matter how much you can try, unless
you
isolate the dog from all other dogs and any
ppl, you will NEVER achieve this desired trait... a totally pampered,
non-threatened dog, to start out with.
Sorry mb. You're a mental case.
A lot of stuff having nothing to do with what
we're talking about here.
There has been no answer as to how howdy
knows the temps, he has never told us when and if he takes them,
IOW, you don't have enough information to base an
opinion. Like your pal amy dahl did when she proved
my Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too) is a scam
because it cannot attain the range that it does.

She's finished.

And so are you and the rest of our Thugs, mb.

The party is over. Go home.
during his 'training' (abusive) method.
Care to quote the abuse in McProtection?

THERE ISNT'T ANY.

Your pal amy dahl ties a retriever dog to a tree
and throws a retrieve article out of his reach and
BEATS HIM to make him REALLY DIG IN, and
you think that's FINE.
He tells us he gets the dogs worked up in the first
two minutes of this 'training',
That's the idea of aggitation, mb. Isn't it?

Your pals HURT dogs to do that. Ask freaky frantik
fraud die. Or ask lying"I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

Ask them what's flanking mean.
and the dog has explosive diarrhea,
You're in your element again, huh.
so exactly when and how does he take the temp??
Seems to me you don't have any argument at all mb.
He never tells.
Right, I never discussed it until karibear finally asked
about it. There's no point in discussing training with
you or cindymooreon, you bums hurt dogs to train them.

karibear is NICE.
(Until perhaps now, he'll go find something
on the web to 'back him up',
Sorry mb. Jerry don't do that, remember?

Jerry don't give a damn about your experts.

Jerry don't need no back up. Jerry is the expert
here, and it's your experts who had better get
back up from Jerry proving them to be lying,
dog abusing Thugs.

OH! Silly me! That's what you do here.

You lie for your pals cindy and amy.
which as any of these sites have been shown NOT to apply to him and his
training at all.)
Well, that's up to you. I don't care to read the information,
I know what I'm doing because this has been my business
for thirty eight years.
So, if he doesn't take the temp, because of the diarrhea, then how does
he know the temps aren't *higher*, causing all these other body function
breakdowns,
My working dogs are not breaking down, mb. YOU are.

You and your pals are going out of your minds trying
to prove me wrong, and you know what? You're INSANE.

You've been JERRYIZED, like dogman and karen
and lying"I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn and freaky frantik
fraud die.

Bye mb. Time to find someplace else to be.
that we've all been at him about? How does he know when the temps go down?
What a stupid argument, like Patch's 150' long line. You're nuts.
Again, all of this is a GREAT lesson for all new owners, and yet, at the
same time, it goes to show, (as in ALL of these criteria the dogs are
*strenuously exercised*,
Oh, you want to know why I don't need strenuous exercise?
not just pampered then shocked by an 'attack' on their owner <SIGH>),
Sigh.
that howdy can NOT show how he achieves his alleged temps and other
heinous abuse.
Gee, and you can't show any abuse in my Mc Protection method, can you. But
your pals lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn and freaky frantik fraud die both BEAT their dogs to
turn them on...

Now, the only question is, do their dogs get an increase in
temperature after a few minutes of being beaten like amys' retreiver dogs
tied to the tree? Do you think if we took their temperatures there would be
an increase?

I doubt it. Not for pain, marybeth. It's a different sort of emotion.


My dogs don't fear pain because they don't know it.


My Mc Protection triggers Survival Instinct, not pain. j;~}

----------------------------------
Almost none of us have ever thrown a can of pennies at our dog's bodies,
but Jerry thinks that is just fine.
CITES PLEASE, taragreen2, you pathetic miserable
stinkin rotten lyin animal murderin punk thug coward
active acute chronic life-long INCURABLE DRUG
an ALCHOHOL ADDICT??
Some of us don;t even use leash corrections in our training,
Of curse not~!

Your "LEAVE IT" command, taragreen2?
but a careful examination of Jerry's manual shows
that's exactly what he describes in his leash walking
exercise
Yeah. Tell THAT to Reginald, my 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits'
End Training Method Manual STUDENT of TEN YEARS
AGO, you pathetic miserable stinkin rotten lyin animal
murderin MENTAL CASE <{}: ~ ) >
(of course he doesn't *call* them "leash corrections" because if you call
it that, it's suddenly very mean and abusive).
INDEED?
Yes I only needed to watch 10 minutes of the show to
see it is wrong. I take it you agree with these backwards training
methods practiced by the psycho end of my leash guy?
Stupid, stupid assumption on your part.
That so, taragreen2?
If these are the kinds of conclusions you tend to jump to with little to
no information,
Would it MEAN ANY THING to you if the DOG
ABUSIN COWARD put it IN HIS OWN WRITTEN
WORDS, taragreen2??
you really ought to try ffinishing a tv show, or a
book or even reading a post before you draw conclusions in the future.
Yeah. You never know when you'll change your
mind abHOWET jerkin an chokin an shockin an
beatin dogs till THEY GO INSANE <{}: ~ ( >
Knowing all the posters in question, for the most part, you couldn't be
more wrong.
But of curse~!

THEY ALL GOT VERY LONG POSTED CASE
HISTORIES of LIES IDIOCY INSANITY and ABUSE.
Not liking you does not equal supporting trainers who are skilled at self
promotion.
WHO "don't like" Reginald?
Do you also think Dr. Phil is helpful?
dr. phil is a UNETHICKAL FRAUD an dog abusin coward.
How about Jerry Springer or Judge Judy??
I always log off when Springer is on at noontime <{}': ~ ) >
I am sorry but you really need to go out and socialize my dear and not
just at a dog show, go somewhere else, try to meet people who are not the
same as you,
try to open up to new ideas, be more forward thinking,
more positive, I know you can do it, good girl!
Sorry, Reginald, tara is a DRUNKEN DRUG ADDICTED
INCURABLE MENTAL PATIENT <{}: ~ ( >
Holy shit.
Perhaps you FORGOT The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing,
Majestic Grand Master Puppy,
Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey, SpHOWES,
And Horsey Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End
Training Method Manual Forums And Human And
Animal Behavior Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory
are FAMILY news groups <{}: ~ ( >
You are a serious piece of work.
INDEEDY, taragreen2; Reginald is WON of The
Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
Amazing, Majestic Grand Master Puppy, Child,
Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey, SpHOWES,
And Horsey Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE
WWW Wits' End Training Method Manual STUDENTS.
Maybe stop posting,
That'd be kinda like GIVIN PERMISSION to ABUSE dogs.
stop jumping to conclusions,
You mean when he OBSERVES someWON abusin critters?
read people's posts
Like the WONS I CITE, taragreen2?
(and by that I don;t mean Jerry's *interpretations* and creatively
"edited" versions of people's posts)
I CITE THEM VERBATUM, taragreen2 <{}: ~ ( >

THAT'S HOWE COME YOU LYIN ANIMAL MURDERIN
MENTAL CASES WARN PEOPLE NOT TO READ YOUR
OWN POSTED CASE HISTORIES <{}:~ ( >
and maybe learn something.
You mean, maybe SUMPTHIN LIKE THIS, taragreen2?:

From: "The Puppy Wizard" <***@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004

Subject: Re: Where's marybeth?


Val writes Monday, 6/3/02:


Well, for what it's worth, I am praising without
physical contact and she does seem to listen
better than when I would praise with it. I agree
that it is a distraction.


Anyway, no more aggressive behaviors from
her since I started the Witts End.
Didja also see that he has 'morphed' into Valerie M. Holmes ?????
Note: I am not saying there isn't a VALID Valerie M. Holmes, but this one
lives in howdy's home. MB <G>
From: Seeing Spots \(Val\) (***@worldnet.att.net)
Subject: Re: Dear Wits End
Date: 2002-06-04 18:19:07 PST

HEY!!!


There is a Valid Valerie with a REAL Dalmatian
who is a real sweet dog with a few issues that I
am working to resolve after adopting her from a
shelter she spent 2 years in.


All I want is to get some decent help for my dog.


There is some decent stuff in Jerry's manual.
My dog has ACTUALLY been responding to
her training. The deal is you have to separate
your opinions and impressions from the guy
who is writing these posts and take from the
manual what you want.


Personally, I get a pretty good chuckle out
of the whole Jerry thing. I have to say the
guy is pretty clever, you're letting him get
under your skin.


It makes for a very amusing game I think.
I'm sure he would agree, or he wouldn't
be playing everyday.


He also wouldn't be playing if he didn't believe
that his method of training weren't valid.


Perhaps I'll learn from my mistakes, but so far,
using the Wits' End, I have gotten my dalmatian
to listen to me, to look to me for direction, to wait
for me to say when.


I have changed her from an aggressive dog
to one who is willing to please her owner,
willing to listen, willing to assume her role
in the pack.


The real Valerie M. Holmes speaking


P.s. Jerry, don't get any ideas about morphing
into me, ok?

----------------------------


MaryBeth, QUEEN OF THE RPD* MENTALLY
ILL ALLSTARS MENTAL ILLNESS IN RPD*


Mental illness is a public issue in these newsgroups.
People are always running around calling other people
mentally ill and diagnosing their illnesses. I think it's
only fair that we have an accurate list of who is and
who isn't mentally ill, so that we can avoid any
misunderstandings and promote group harmony.


MaryBeth
MVP (most valuable psycho)


Has contributed greatly to the annual profit
results at several large pharmaceutical corps
has taken virtually every mentally ill (crazy)
drug treatment in the book, and then some:
prozac, zoloft, amitryptiline, Buspar, Xanax,
effexor, paxil, HRT, wellbutrin, tranquilizers,
clomid, has suffered from or been:


suicidal, agoraphobic, tidal waves of
PMS, mood swings, turned into a hermit,
bloated, just real angry, hubby afraid of
her, high blood pressure, divorced,
"raving bitch" "zoloft zombie" for four
years, "living through layers and layers
of gauze," chain smoker, buzzing, weight
gain, fatigue, terrible dry mouth, dull
headaches, fuzzy brain, lack of
concentration..etc.


severe depression, severe insomnia, Panic
ALL the time, crying, not sleeping, you
name it...etc...


MaryBeth (on being seriously f'd in the head
aka mentally ill) aka cuckoo! kuckoo! ding! ding! ding!
aka a superpsychotic bitch from hell


"I know for a fact I went thru years of
being overly sensitive, being a b*tch,
being self centered, being self pitying,
you name it, I was a wreck and I ran over
everyone in my path."


"<G> I do know the power of meds,
especially on a long term basis, and it's
not pretty. You become another person, if
it's not the correct med for you.


--All the best,
MaryBeth


"Yup Diane, I am taking Zoloft, and my
Rheumatologist told me that taking
Ultram with it can cause seizures."


"I have all the symptoms.I am suicidal at
times (cyclical) have severe insomnia,
'crawly' skin etc. I have an appt to see
my doc next Friday to test for
menopause."


--MaryBeth


"I noticed that antidepressants cut
libido into the dead zone and I had no
real emotions, like not laughing at funny
stuff, couldn't cry either.....except
about my suicidal thoughts (but at the
time I thought there was no other way out)."


--MaryBeth


"Hi, new to group, just starting Clomid
today. I talked with RE and pharmacist
re: zoloft (50 mg daily) and ineraction
with Clomid.


They reported none. Not sure about the
prozac tho. Gonna poat a new message to
intorduce myself :)"


--MaryBeth <still feeling like herself>
<G>


"I wasted about 10 years of my life, and
lost many many treasured ppl and things.
Please don't do the same.
(((((((SCOUT))))))))))


--MaryBeth


"Slowly but surely my depression got worse
and worse. They put me on meds for it, and
all along kept telling me to wait on the
TKR, as 'it really wasn't that
bad.....yet". HA!" The depression got so
bad, and lots of other
things happened and my ex and I would up
divorced four years after our move. It was
horrible. The hardest thing I have eve
gone thru"


--MaryBeth

I think Reginald has LEARNED all he needed to know.
Good grief.
INDEED?

Oh, you're RIGHT, as usual, taragreen2~!

I ALMOST FORGOT THIS:

A Salute To tara green:

"Sneaky Anger", "The Cold Shoulder",
"Shaming And Beratement").


Still Crazy, After All These Years
<{} '; ~ ) >

From: Jerry Howe
Date: Mon, Dec 30 2002 6:56 am


HOWEDY tara.green2,
But first, your LEAVE IT command and PROOF that you're not a lying dog
abusing Punk Thug Coward like Your Puppy Wizard told Canis55 the first
week you posted.
Wow. Your lies are getting easier to spot.
Shame shame, on Your Puppy Wizard. That's likely
to get his mouth washed out with soap! WATCH!

Oh? Bye the bye, what was the lie? I ought to know
before I take my punishment, tara.green2. I hope I
didn't get caught lyin about touching myself someMOORE?
I wasn't! HONEST!!! I won't do it again. I PROMISE!!!
actually, this is the first thing you ever posted to me: "Nice post,
Tarag. Stick around. J."
That was probably your first post I read, and I just reviewed
it, and it's still nice. Wasn't great, but nice, considering the
rest of the shit advice in that thread. I didn't go over it real
close on account of there wasn't enough knowledgeable
students to address the issues with at that time, tara.

Our group has changed significantly since then. Our group
has become a much MOORE informative, nicer place to be,
since some of our old hard core lying dog abusing Punk
Thug Coward pals haven't been posting noMOORE on
account of they can't take the EMBARRRASSMENT.


"Because if you had checked it out, you surely would have
known that this really is a *one*-sided affair. That is,
that *Jerry Howe* started all this crap, and then people
like Marilyn, Canis, and a couple others, probably trolls,
kept it rolling," lyingdogDUMMY aka handsome gentleman
"HAPPY JACK" morrison aka joey finnochiarrio the HIV
consultant <{}: ~ ) >.


You notice he ain't postin here noMOORE, tara.green2.


"They still are, too, if you're still paying any
attention to Jerry Howe, etc," lyingdogDUMMY.


Goddamned tootin. This is Your Puppy Wizard's Forum, tara.green2.


Decent people can post here but there's no decent people on
this forum because our dog lovers are lying dog abusing Thug
Cowards, tara.green, who hurt dogs because they either LIKE
to or because they NEED to on account of they ain't got the
intellect to outwit the cuninng of the domestic puppy dog
even after Your Puppy Wizard tells them HOWE for FREE and
his STUDENTS tell you HOWE THEY did it, and you still can'T
figure it out.


You call them LIARS PAID SHILLS and FORGERIES.


Only dog abusers were welcome here when you first came in.
You had a LITTLE MOORE savvy than the rest of our dog lovers.

That's changed, on account of there's MOORE of my successful
students been through here than dog abusers and liars like you,
tara.green2. I didn't know you were a dog abuser until your LEAVE IT command
came up...
and you pretty much stayed that way towards me until I disagreed with your
opinion on neutering.
I believe it was your LEAVE IT command... *(you'll find it IN
YOUR OWN WORDS BELOW your MENTAL HEELTH CASE
HISTORY) but I might be LYING about that.

NOBODY cares about YOU, tara.green2. You're a very disturbed individual.
Perhaps you was just out takin care
of your elbow, and can't remember so good,tara.green2?

You're such a WHACKO even your parents deserted you
and they was DRUNKS an DRUG ADDICTS you'd think
they could put up with a little snit like yourself, eh tara?


WELL THEY COULDN'T. NodoGdamenedMOOR than
show dog bark's mommy an daddy could toalerat her
freakin INSANITY despite they caused it themself <{) : ~ ( >


From: Tara G (***@gateway.net)


Subject: Re: Sound Distraction And Praise - According
To The Wits' End Dog Training Method - End Your Dog's
Ability To Pull Your Chain


Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.health
Date: 2001-03-08 18:44:08 PST


Patch, all you got to see was what he cross posted
to this ng. If you *really* want to see abuse, go over
to rec.pets.dogs.behavior and just read his posts for
as long as you can stand it.

There is absolutely nothing wrong (and, IMO....everything
right) with positive based training. Trouble with the crackpot
is, he'll abuse people for not doing it HIS way.....no matter
how positive it is.

Oh, and some of his advice is just plain absurd (for example....check out
his advice for "separation anxiety"....
what a joke).

=============================


Yeah. Your Puppy Wizard LAUGHS at all dog behavior
problems, tara.green2. Dog training is EZ if you know
HOWE. Try laughin along with my students.


professor SCRUFF SHAKE dermer CURED his little hyperactive
obsessive compulsive magnificent masturbator Maxie's chronic
urinary / digestive tract problems by washin his tallywhacker
for five minutes at bedtime with aloe gel on a warm moist
towel <{) : ~ ) >


You might wanna try THAT three times a day.


OtherWIZE, you'll likeWIZE find The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin
Insanely Simply Amazing GRAND Puppy, Child, Pussy,
Birdy And Horsey Wizard's NON PHYSCIAL C-HOWENTER
CONditioning aka The Insanely Freakin Simply Amazing
Grand Puppy Wizards' Surrogate Toy Separation
AnXXXIHOWESNESS / Bed Time Calming / Fear Of
Thunder / Car Sickness / Submissive Urination / Obsessive
Compulsive Masturbation / Chronic Urinary Tract / Bladder /
Irritable BHOWEL / Spay Incontinence / Obsessive Compulsive\ Marking /
Self-Mutilation / Spraying / Defecating / Vomiting /
Garbage Bin Raiding / Kat Food Stealin / Bell / Siren
HOWEling / WHINING / Barking / Paw Licking / Fear
Aggression / Overtime Working Syndrome Technique
effective as prophylaxis MOST problems that occur
when a dog or child are left alone for a while LIKE
HOWE YOU WAS WHEN YOU WAS ABANDONED
BY YOUR DRUNKIN DRUG CRAZED PARENTS,
taragreen <{); ~ ) >

HOWE'D you like to CURE obsessive compulsive behaviors
like fear of thunder, separation anXXXIHOWESNESS, car
sickness, aggression, shyness, self mutilation IN WON DAY
MAYBE FASTER, MAYBE INSTANTLY?


MAYBE EVEN YOUR OWN PHOBIAS
ADDICTIONS AND ANGER, tarag?


LIKE THIS:


Date: 2001-11-14 09:13:21 PST
Hi! I have downloaded Wit's End Dog Training Method... In there there is
that trick with a toy about "Separation anxiety surrogate toy technique."
Anybody has tried that... I would like to give it a try with my GSP
(German shorthair.....pointer) Comments? Yves Dussault
Yves,

I for one have tried it... in fact I use this all
the time. I just used it last evening while my
husband and I went out to see "The Mummy Returns"
(a horrible turkey of a movie, but at least the
house wasn't chewed from end to end in the meantime).


Yes, it really works. :-) So do the other
distraction/praise techniques described therein.


If you are interested in the manual, you will
probably want to begin the exercises as well.


Regards,
Lisa


----------------------


AND LIKE THIS:


"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
Dealing With This (Destructive Separation
Anxiety). I've Suggested It To Quite A Few
Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY TIME
The Very First Time' - marilyn, Trainer, 33
Years Experience.


AND LIKE THIS:


From: Marilyn Rammell (***@hotmail.com)
Subject: Re: Separation anxiety (?) help needed!
Date: 1999/10/13


Hi Steve,


Just want to second Jerry's method for dealing with this -
I've suggested it to quite a few clients now and it's worked
'every' time.


It sounds a little 'amusing' I agree, but it really works.


Two of the occasions it's worked have been when the
owners were almost at the point of giving up (one had
actually put their dog into kennels for a few days so
that they could re-decorate the demolition done by the dog).


They rang me while the dog was still in kennels and were
not yet decided whether to collect the dog or not.


The very first time they tried Jerry's method, it worked.


Best of luck,
Marilyn Rammell


===============


Subject: To Jerry


1 From: MarilynRammell
Date: Tues, Aug 3 1999 3:00 am
Email: "MarilynRammell" <***@hotmail.com>
Groups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior


Hello Jerry,


A client of mine asked to say a 'big thank you' to you.
They have a 8 month spaniel that they were about to get
rid of.


In fact they had put her into kennels for a few day while
they 'thought it through'. They rang me the day before
they were due to collect her.


She had wrecked their home - everytime they left her she
destroyed something else. The walls, the cabinets, the
carpets, table legs, chair legs, - anything and everything.


They collected her and brought her to me. I gave them some
routine training exercises, and also I wrote out your advice
(I will say at this point that I was not sure about it at all,
and felt a little embarrassed - it was the advice about the
'toy dog that gets the praise for not making a mess'.


Anyway, this was 11 days ago and I heard nothing. Yesterday
they turned up at the new Monday evening class. They were
absolutely delighted.


They told me that after just one attempt, (your toy suggestion)
she 'stopped all the destruction'. They were in tear of happiness
while telling me.


Thank you Jerry.
Respectfully,
Marilyn


----------------


AND LIKE THIS:


From: Hoku Beltz
To: The Puppy Wizard
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 6:12 PM
Subject: Mahalo


Aloha Jerry,


Just wanted to let you know that the surrogate toy
technique is working wonders. I have not had a
shredded sheet for over a week now. It is nice
to be able to leave the bed made and come home
to a made bed.


Your program is awesome, but you already know
that. Keep up the good work!


Hoku


==================


LIKE THIS:


"Hoku Beltz" <***@rsphawaii.com> wrote in message news:SN2k9.45447$***@twister.socal.rr.com...


Aloha Sunny,


Just follow the training program to the letter, no matter how
insignificant some of the step seem to be and your pupy will
be a very well behaved dog in a few days.


I would seriously consider backing out of the training classes
as they will conflict with the Wit's End principles.


I went the training route first, and still had problems until I
found Wits' End. Now I have two "new and improved" dogs.
You won't be dissapointed if you follow the program.


Good luck,


Hoku


==================


AND LIKE THIS:



"Anthony Testa" <testa52> wrote in message


We came home to almost $1,000 in damage.
Furniture, the blinds were all chewed and torn
down, etc. The next day we put her in the crate
again. This time we came home to a nice 2' x 3'
hole in our carpet in the middle of the living room,
right down to the cement.

I told my wife that we cannot afford to keep this dog.
We should go out and get a puppy.


<SNIP>


First, at no cost he sent us his manual. We started
doing exactly what he said to do in the manual.


Exactly as we did was was written, the results were
exactly as he said it would be. Then we purchased
the DDR.


This is an amazing god send to us.


First of all, Jerry sent it to us without paying. (thanks
for that gesture) This has such and AMAZING effect.
This testimonial is kind of winded so I will say this......


Jerry's product literally saved this dogs life.


Angel can be left alone during the day. NO CRATE. The
dog shows absolutely no sign of anxiety at all. Jerry
told us the product works immediately and it did! She
does not bark at all during the day except when the
mailman drops mail into the slot on the door.


The manual for training works exactly as it says!


<SNIP>


Jerry, after reading some of the threads in the news
group, I can't for the life of me understand why this
many people are so dang blind or ignorant.


You just keep plugging away at what you do, because
you my friend are a life saver!!!


Anytime you need someone to speak about the results
of your product, you have my number. We would galdly
talk to them.


Thank you very much for all your help.


God bless you...
Anthony & Linda Testa
Jacksonville, Florida


----------


AND LIKE THIS:

From: Chris Williams (***@webtv.net)
Subject: Re: Thank you Jerry Howe
Date: 2002-03-26 08:16:19 PST


Engrossing account, Anthony. Our best to Angel
and your family.


A friend, who socializes the kittens I've taken
from a feral cat colony, is using the DDR.


She reports far fewer panic problems than
she's had before.


===================



Chris Williams writes:


"The FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method manual
I do find valuable. Much of it I recognize as what
I've always done without thinking of it as "training".
New stuff, I've used. His anchoring technique erased
the last of Mac's fireworks trauma,"

====================


AND LIKE THIS:



Dave Cohen <***@total.net writes:


Re: Barking Deterrants Needed...

Hi. Please understand that I do not know Jerry
and have spoken with him briefly once by email.

I have no stake or interest in the success of his
business. I simply want to thank him publicly for
one of his tips, with regards to separation anxiety.

I thought it seemed far fetched to praise a stuffed
animal and then say good bye to my own dog, but
I am usually a very open minded person, so I tried it.
Well, lo and behold- the damn trick worked!


I think Jerry has some intriguing techniques, and
personally I think everyone who constantly criticizes
him is not understanding his logic. Thank you Jerry!


===================


AND LIKE THIS:

"Dan Moore" ***@worldnet.att.net
wrote in message news:fS2Lc.114567$***@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.
Tracy,


What worked for me, in just one storm,
was to praise the dog after each clap
of thunder, telling him he's a Good Dog!


This is an almost 13 year old Doberman, BTW.


The next time it thundered, he did not even react at
all--you could not tell it was the same dog as before.


There was more thunder just the other day, and same
thing, nada, nothing, zilch, no cowering, whimpering,
trying to hide at all, it was that simple.


I got this idea from Jerry Howe, who might seem
to be a "wild and crazy" character, but his non-
abusive way of handling dogs WORKS.


Wonderfully.


Praise.


It's that simple.


Juanita


========================


AND LIKE THIS:



"nesskay" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:***@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
It has been a couple of months since we have initiated
Jerry Howe's recommendations for resolving the separation anxiety in our
chocolate lab. We have seen remarkable
results.

She can now be left on our houseboat and we can return with
all of the wood trim and/or blinds intact. Before we spoke with
Jerry and started the training, we could not leave her without
her barking in a high pitch incessantly.


I had resorted to "building her a pen" with pieces of
chair railing, putting chairs in front of windows, and
moving the bed so that she could not get to the blind
(again!). It would take about 10-15 minutes of planning
and moving things before we could leave.

Even with that, she would find something to destroy.

We NOW use the surrogate toy method and can go
out, shop, go to dinner or whatever, without any problems.

She is glad to see us when we return, but no longer frantic.


I am so happy that this seems to be the norm now.


Another problem that we had with her was although
she would not destroy the house, she would leave
us runny poop in several places.(kind of the same
as destroy I guess).

I tried to blame this on her diet, but realized that her
anxiety level was so high that she just had no control.

Now, the only time that she has done that is
when she devoured a diaper from the trash!!!

Jerry's methods work. I found him by typing in separation
anxiety+orlando florida into Google, otherwise I don't want
to Speculate what could have happened with Amelia.

We were at our Wit's End!!!!!! Thanks so much Jerry.


We have given your URL to everyone we know with a dog.
Your methods work. The others that we tried did not.


It is that simple!


Thank you, Thank you Thank you!


Nancy and Amelia


---------------------


AND LIKE THIS:


From: "LESPERANCE/DEAKIN" <***@total.net>
Date: 1999/10/06
Subject: Re: Separation Anxiety


Well Jerry, I have to hand it to you. It worked!


Our dog was very well behaved until I had to go on the
road for my work this summer. I was gone twice for 10
long days each time. Although there were still people
home, I am the "primary care-giver" to my dog, so he
became destructive (shoes, books, rugs, papers etc)


We have a crate, but I believe it is too small for him
now - he is a cross golden/gsd and when he sits or stands
he cannot hold his head up as the top is too low, so I
didn't want to crate him while I went to work for sometimes
8 hours.


Anyway, I decided to try your method with the toy.


I would find a toy, tell it to be good and place it in
his crate. After just 3 days, there was no more destruction
in the house - even when daughter or hubby forgot to put
their shoes away! Now the toy stays in the crate all day,
and he even crawls in to be with the "good toy" when I leave.


He seems quite proud when we come home.


I have not tried the can thing - don't quite understand
that, so I think my dog may be confused too!


Marcie (Winslow's mom)


AND LIKE THIS:


From: Eric
To: ***@bellsouth.net
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 7:54 AM
Subject: just checking in...


Jerry!


You helped me with my pal Dundee about
a year ago regarding submissive peeing.


Just wanted to let you know he's doing
great- he was "cured" in about 2 days
using your techniques!


He has since become the "smartest dog
in the world"! Once I stopped thinking like
a human and got inside his head, I can
teach him ANYTHING, usually in a matter
of minutes.


Makes me look like an expert dog-trainer.


I rescued two strays last week, cleaned 'em up,
wormed 'em, and am getting them their shots. Time
to get inside their heads and teach them to teach
themselves how to be good dogs!


Instead of feeling like "training" is a chore, I
look forward to working with these guys a
couple times a day...


Although I don't follow your instructions "to
a T", I learned from you to "think like a dog"
and stimulate their brain rather than beating
ass or pinching, or any of that nonsense.


I know damn well I would NOT be loyal
to someone who beat MY ass lol!


Well, just wanted to thank you for rattling the
bushes out there and teaching folks the RIGHT
way to "train" dogs.


A horseman friend of mine uses very similar techniques in
training his horses- he calls it "natural horsemanship".


He is hated by nearly all the local "trainers"
yet somehow he repeatedly wins at every
show he attends. He rarely shows any more,
but goes now and then to rub their noses in it
(pun intended)... Too cool....


Have a great holiday season and keep up
the good work!


Eric , Dundee, Sammy, and Maynard


====================


AND LIKE THIS:


Date: 5/22/03 11:24:35 PM Eastern
Daylight Time
From: ***@cfl.rr.com
To: ***@aol.com


Well, let me tell you, your Wits' End
Dog Training Method works.


My dog, Dasie, Loves to chase chameleons
around the barbecue on the patio. I
used this system on four different occasions.


When she went out today, she looked
everywhere else but the barbecue.
Amazing, just amazing.


I will write to Amanda about the video.


I am really excited to learn more, and
understand. Maybe just a little reassurance
that I am going about it the right way.


Thanks again
Paul


===========


AND LIKE THIS:


From: AIMEE (***@yahoo.com)
Subject: House training and such...
Date: 2003-10-08 16:18:56 PST


I've been having a problem with my dog, Axel,
relieving himself in the house while I'm away
from home.


I've used TPW method's, and yesterday I was out
for 12 hours, and Axel didn't have one single "accident".


Today, I had hoped that the results would be just as
good - and they were (I was out for 11 hours).


The problem began when, as a puppy, Axel would
relieve himself in the house and I would point
at the mess and tell him "NO" or "Bad Dog".


That made him afraid to relieve himself in the
house or infront of me.


After I got TPW's training manual, I corrected my
mishandling of these instances.


When I came home to an "accident", I would simply
drop a can near the area and ask Axel "What's that?"
Then I would clean it up - with out showing him I was
the least bit upset about the mess, and when he looked
at the spot I would tell him "Good boy, you're a good dog".


This has been an ongoing problem, and thanks to the
Puppy Wizard, we've finally got it taken care of...


Also, Axel LOVES the cat's litter box...He enjoys the
"snacks" he can find in there...I followed TPW's methods
by alternating sounds and praising him while or before
he sticks his nose in it, and today, he's been going into
the room with the cat box and barking. That's because
he's thinking about getting into the box, but he knows he
shouldn't.


Thank you, Jerry, for all you help.


You've been a blessing to all of us.


AIMEE


-----------------------


From: AIMEE (***@yahoo.com):


I own a black an tan coonhound. We got him
as a puppy, and due to constant mishandling
(pulling on his lead, negative corrections, and
the occasional use of a bark collar) I ended
up with a very anxious dog.


I couldn't leave him home alone, I couldn't
crate him, I couldn't even take my dog for
walks because he feared EVERYTHING.


I was going to have to get rid of him if things
didn't turn around.


My husband and I searched the internet for
answers - AND WE FOUND THE PUPPY WIZARD.


For all of you disbeliveers out there HIS METHODS WORK!


I've followed his manual, and we now have a
dog that can be left home alone, that heels
on command, that can go outside and NOT
be afraid of everything he sees.


Not only have his methods helped our dog, but
our marriage has gotten better. We had fallen
into a rut - constant bickering and tension, we
never laughed or had FUN together - but now,
with the same mindset used in THE PUPPY
WIZARDS dog training, our communications
channels have opened, and we now work
together instead of against one another.


For all the "Literalists" out there, NO WE DID
NOT TEACH EACH OTHER TO SIT, STAY,
OR HEEL.


We simply eliminated the nagging and the acting out to get
NEGATIVE attention from one another since we weren't getting
the POSITIVE attention we wanted.


So, it's been proven - THE PUPPY WIZARDS
METHODS WORK.


It's up to you to accept them. Yes, there's alot of blame
that we have to accept, but once we realize that we've caused
these problems to arise, we can strive to make things better.


AIMEE


=============


There's LOTS an LOTS MOORE
JUST LIKE THEM'S tara green 2.

You're a pathetic miserable stinkin lyin animal abusin
punk thug coward active acute chronic long term incurable
mental case an YOU CAN'T POST HERE abHOWETS nodoGdamenD MOORE you drunken
drug crazed victim
of parental abuse.

JUST LIKE HOWE Robin REPORTED RIGHT HERE <{); ~ ) >


LIKE THIS YOU MISERABLE STINKIN LYIN
ANIMAL MURDERIN MENTAL CASE:

From: Robin <***@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 22:49:15 -0700
Subject: Re: Paging Puppy Wizard
you must have missed his posts where he shows he's psycho and not worth
10 seconds worth of time
I disagree. If you can look past the way he communicates,
How he communicates is precisely the point. The reason rational people no
longer listen to the "puppy wizard" has nothing to do with grammar
Kurtis,

I believe myself to be rational (I'm not saying this
defensively), and the reactions from the people in my
world (friends, family, tradespeople, neighbors,
acquaintences, business people, my healthcare givers,
and it goes on and on) seem to reflect that I probably
am rational.


Kurtis, the reason I look beyond the exterior, is
because sometimes, not always, there is something
of value. I've found this to be true many times in
my life.


If you've been following my posts, I have a difficult
situation with my little dog, and I've followed all the
mainstream thinking and techniques for separation anxiety,
to no avail.


One of the reasons I decided to take Jerry's manual more
seriously was the feedback from those who had who had
achieved positive results. And I'm glad I did (please
see my post to Jerry about tonight's session using Jerry's
SA technique).
or spelling. It is about his surety that he has the only valid viewpoint
and all others are wrong.
Kurtis, I say this gentle respect (tone can be misinterpreted
with this form of communication) - read again what you said
above. You are doing what you accuse Jerry of, the surety
that you have the only valid viewpoint and all others (who
support Jerry) are wrong. (i.e. they're not rational).
It is about his atrocious manners. It is about his presumption to know
enough about an individual to judge them an abuser of animals from a
single usenet message.
I can't argue with you. But this doesn't have the
same emotional charge for me as it does for you.
Please know he has supporters, some of whom doctorate level
professionals, and this is for a reason.
I know plenty of "smart" people who believe in astrology and homeopathy.
Just because someone is knowledgeable
about one topic does not preclude them being idiots in other areas.
Kurtis, please listen to yourself; your judgement about
people who believe in astrology and homeopathy (idiots?),
you are so unwielding and harsh ("the surety that you have
the only valid viewpoint and all others are wrong.")
Personally, I like Jerry. He's a colorful character, to say the least,
I like colorful people as well. The world would be extremely boring and
limited if everyone were like me. But just because someone has a different
worldview, style of dress, or speaking style doesn't mean I should treat
them as an authority on an arbitrary subject.
No need to treat or think of him as an authority!

(Ooops! <{); ~ ) > )
I've read way too many posts by PW and visited his web site. While there
are nuggets of useful information in what he says I can get the same
advice from other sources
(CITES PLEASE??? <{); ~ ) > )
without the abuse.
(Seems kurtis means EMBARRASSMENT <{); ~ ) > )

Now Kurtis, you know the same advice is not available
elsewhere. You're speaking an untruth to give weight
to your arguement.


I'm going to receive all kind of flack for this statement -
there's something about Jerry that has completely pushed
your buttons, and it has nothing to do with Jerry.

(Hint: look to one or both of your parents for the
source of this anger, that's who you're angry at)
I KNOW I'm going to regret having said that, but
this is kind of mood I'm in right now.


Anyway, you seem like a nice guy.


Best regards, Robin


----------------

IT'S ALL OVER, fellHOWE dog lovers <{}: ~ ( >
Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
2009-03-20 02:22:11 UTC
Permalink
HOWEDY paul e. schoen you pathetic miserable
stinkin rotten lyin animal murderin punk thug coward
active acute chronic life-long incurable malignant
maliciHOWES MENTAL CASE,
In article
Once again the whole reality based signature
has me laughing.
You know, several people have asked for your specific
objections to the programs you're ranging about, and oddly
you respond with another rant. In fact, your only
communication mode appears to be the rant. Truly, you
brighten the planet.
--
Prouder than ever to be a member
of the reality-based community
Can you read? Pinning a dog on the floor, jumping on it like a wrestler
and that was in less then ten minutes. Why are you so dumb?????
Melinda has admitted that she has some attention
deficit and thus often does not read and retain all
of a long post for content. That is especially true for posts like yours
that have little whitespace
so everything is lumped together in one big paragraph.
Is this gonna be abHOWET postin style, paulie?
Of course she is not dumb,
She's a MENTAL PATIENT, like ALL OF you, paulie.
but I think she is a very negative and narrow minded person,
Pot; Kettle; Black; eh, paulie??
as are many others who consider themselves
"kings and queens" of this newsgroup.
HOWE did janet FORCE you to JERK an CHOKE
your RESCUE dog Muttley till IT WENT INSANE
an ATTACKED a innocent puppy in janet's OBEDIENCE
TRAININ class an chased off your DEAD KAT Photon
and ATTACKED your other NEW RESCUE dog, Lucky,
whom you DUMPED at a KILL SHELTER, paulie??
In my other post, I made some specific comments on
the methods advocated by the "stars" of shows such as what you watched,
and suggested an alternative where positive methods are used.
INDEED??

BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!:

paulie wrote:

Your non-violent methods for dogs ring hollow
when you use verbal violence against other dog
owners, thus triggering their own opposition
reflexes. I will try other non-violent methods
that communicate what is expected of the dog.

And I don't believe that proper use of a prong
collar or choker chain are evil and physically
hurtful.

[snip verbal abuse]

So you think it is effective to withold praise,
but offer it as a bribe to get people to follow
your methods? Or promise you will stop beating
them if they obey your commands? Yet never do
it for a dog?

Paul and Muttley (almost fully recovered from
Arbitrary Praise Neurosis)

"so now he accuses me of yanking and choking my
dog on a prong collar to force him into obedience,"

(See, I give praise!) (but not for bad behaviors...)

----------------

SEE?

HOWEver, it AIN'T like you AIN'T ALWAYS been
a dog abusin COWARD an MENTAL CASE, paulie:

Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life Or Death

"I have a very vivid and terrible memory of the time
when my dog was viciously attacked by a larger dog
in the woods near our house.

The girl who owned the dog was beating it
with a stick, and I stabbed it in the neck.

Both dogs survived, but after that, I always
carried a stout stick with me when walking
our dog.

This was back in the 60s, when leash laws
were very lax or non-existent, and before
everybody was lawsuit crazy, and when the
few drug dealers and thugs in the few bad
areas of town were deathly afraid of all big
dogs," paul e. schoen.

--------------------------

SEE?
Although I presented my views and personal experience in a rational and
matter-of-fact manner,
Here's janet boss and her REAL LIFE IN PERSON
"students" paul and his RESCUE dog Muttley whom
she wanted to MURDER on accHOWENTA she
COULDN'T TRAIN Muttley NOT TO MURDER his
DEAD KAT Photon:

"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him
a stern correction" --Janet Boss

http://tinyurl.com/5m6ppt

"Rudy is going to start learning the e-collar this week.
I'm sure you'll NOT hear screams from across the pond."

"J1Boss" <***@aol.com> wrote in message news:***@mb-m18.aol.com...

He was next to me and I could see his neck
muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.

Janet Boss
I can't imagine needing anything higher than a 5
with it, even with an insensitive dog like a Lab.
An INSENSITIVE DOG???
I can't remember what model of Innotek I have,
but I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.
========

BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!

SEE?

Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <***@smart.net> wrote

It is a shame that Muttley will probably be put
down (his appointment is next Wednesday),

Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <***@smart.net> wrote

<snip>

If I did not have to worry about my cat, I would
probably keep him, and I am certain I could avoid
any more dangerous episodes. I probably would
not have taken him to obedience classes at this time
if that was not such a difficult issue, and if people
here had not essentially shamed me into doing so.

Then he would only be a bratty dog with a mind of
his own, but he would not have been identified as
dangerous.
--------------------------

Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death

"Paul E. Schoen" <***@smart.net> wrote

Hello everyone:

If you have followed some of my posts, you know
something about the ongoing story of Muttley, the
large GSD/Chow dog I have been trying to adopt
or place in a better home.

I will add a bit more history later in this post.

Last Tuesday, toward the end of Janet's obedience
class, Muttley and I had just finished fairly successfully
performing a sit/stay/come routine, and then he was
sitting by my side.

The final routine was to be a "down", which Muttley
has had some difficulty with, and frankly I have not
had the time to work with him much on that.

I was kneeling at his side, trying to hold his collar
while pushing his front legs down to the position,
while he resisted. Suddenly he lunged, knocking
me over onto the parking lot, and I lost grip of the
leash as I reflexively broke my fall.

Muttley took the opportunity to attack a young black
male Lab to my left, and it was a very brutal attack.
Janet and the instructors tried to gain control, and as
soon as I could get to my feet I grabbed the leash and
pulled him off.

That was the end of the class, and the other dog,
Bernie, was taken to an animal hospital for treatment.

When everyone had left, Janet counseled me about
what should be done about Muttley.

She said this was more than ordinary aggression,
and only intensive (and expensive) one on one
training would have any chance at working, and
in any case, he was not suited to group training.

She advised me that Muttley could be dangerous,
and she recommended that he be euthanized.

"They can't all be saved".

<snip>

--------------
some of the regulars took issue with my reference
to my own bad experience with correction-based dog training as offered by
Janet Boss,
Here's janet trainin paulie's dog to be FRIENDLY:

#2 - 6/05/07
When I was training him under Janet's supervision
I was instructed to give it a ? firm yank as a correction.
I advised you to use a prong collar, not give firm
yanks on a chain choke collar. I hate the things.
"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him a
stern correction" --Janet Boss
http://tinyurl.com/5m6ppt
She was able to get his attention with
just a quick tug, but I had to yank on it
hard enough to lift him off his feet to get
him to respond. Looking back now, I think
it was based on his fear, which he had for
her (as an unknown), but not for me
(whom he had learned to trust).
He wasn't afraid of me. He knew I was a
confident trainer. Fear has no place in dog
training, as I told you THEN.
Janet
"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him a
stern correction" --Janet Boss
http://tinyurl.com/5m6ppt

It seems to me that applying stern corrections, by
popping a choker chain, prong collar, or whatever,
is a way to ensure compliance by instilling a fear
of further punishment.

Sure, if it is administered very consistently
by a confident trainer, the dog soon learns
to obey. There was no positive reinforcement,
so what remains is negative.

Also, I recall the time you were going to show me
how I could get Muttley to take his rawhide treat
from me without lunging for it. When you offered
it to him, he refused to take it. This IMHO is likely
a fear behavior.

Things have changed a lot since then, and I have
learned a lot, and Muttley has settled down quite
a bit. I probably still give him too much freedom
to think on his own, but that's just my way of
doing things, and that's probably not going to
change much. He may never win an obedience
medal, but I don't think he is dangerously out
of control, either.

Paul and Muttley

----------------

BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!

paulie CONtinues:

"I thought I was told that the way to get the dog to go
down was to make him sit and then step on the leash.
That was awkward and didn't seem to work.

I will confess that I only tried the "down" position
once or twice at home, and I also often used it
instead of "Off" when I wanted him to stop
jumping on me or elsewhere I didn't want him to be.

I had to give him corrections every few seconds,
and also just about kick him, to keep him at my
left side.

Muttley is really a very sweet and loving dog, but
he needs more socialization with other dogs. However,
it is very likely that I will have him put down in a week."

Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <***@smart.net> wrote

It is a shame that Muttley will probably be put
down (his appointment is next Wednesday),

-----------------------

BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!

THAT'S quite a SUCCESS STORY, AIN'T IT, paulie?
and immediately came to her "defense",
You mean the LIARS, DOG ABUSERS
COWARDS an MENTAL PATIENTS, paulie?:

Subject: Re: redirected aggression
Date: 4/11/07

"Janet Boss" <***@bestfriendsdogobedience.com> wrote in message news:janet-***@news.individual.net...

It seems I have been dealing with this a bit lately.
Dog to dog and dog to person,, with dogs who are
obviously overstimulated by what's in front of them.

What's in front of them varies from people at the door
to dogs in their path or directly in their face. The dogs
in question all have very poor self control.

I have dog(s) with not-so-great-natural self control,
so it's something we constantly work on. We don't
have redirected stuff going on, because we have
enough obedience to avoid it.

While I know that's the big answer for the dogs in
question as well, I'm curious what things people have
found useful to redirect/focus/gain attention from
drivey dogs or just very distracted of over-the-top dogs.

We're having success with my recommendations, but I'm
always open to something novel that may be the hot ticket.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

BWEEEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA~!~!~!
even though very few of them have ever met her
in person or attended her obedience classes.
Here's janet's OBEDIENCE TRAININ PARTNER:


Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
90 From: Sionnach
Date: Mon, Oct 9 2006 1:19 am
Email: "Sionnach" <***@msn.com>


*I* was thanking the Deity that the NCR trail
was not my choice of hiking area today!!!!


Sorry, Paul, but the gloves are now off, because if I HAD
chosen the NCR trail today - rather than another local trail-
you would have been putting ***MY*** beloved dogs at
risk of serious injury or death. ***MY*** DOGS.


What the FUCKING HELL is **WRONG** with you???


Your dog, which you have repeatedly admitted you can't
control, just made a near-lethal unprovoked attack on
another dog in obedience class, and you TOOK HIM
OUT ON THE TRAILS WHERE THERE ARE OTHER
DOGS?????


You do that again, when my dogs are around, and
he attacks one of them, you won't have to worry
about having him put down - I will either break his
spine or choke him to death right then and there.


I'm dead fucking serious, Mr. Schoen.


----------------------



SEE??


HERE'S janet's OBEDIENCE TRAININ partner
who heelped nessa BREAK HER DOG Bagel's
neck an taught them to TURN ON HER:


: From: Sionnach (***@msn.com)
: Subject: Re: another question from me and joy?
:
: Date: 2002-04-10 19:40:33 PST


: "BethF" wrote:


: > I don't think any of our regulars bite
: > their dogs ears to leash train them.




: He's repeating one of Jerry's confabulations... I did,
: once, lightly nip a seriously out-of-control, temper-
: tantruming Labrador on the ear to get her attention.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
: > <yawn> Once again- that's NOT a quote
: > from any post of mine; JH "wrote" it, not me.
:
: No, that's a flat HOWET lie, sinofabich. It's a
: direct quote from YOU, with exception of TWO
: WORDS, "smartly" and "neatly."
:
: > It's quotes from two different posts, by two
: > different people -
:
: ONLY if you're SCHIZOPHRENIC, sinofabitch.
:
: > both taken out of context-
:
: YOU'RE A LIAR.
:
: We got your original post in The Puppy Wizard's Archives.
:
: You'll see your own words EXXXACTLY as QUOTED.
: And we'll likeWIZE see you DENYING your own words
: in three different ways!!!
:
: > and with extra wording added in by a third person.
:
: NO. YOU'RE A LIAR.
:
: The ONLY "extra words," SMARTLY and NEATLY,
: were INDEEDY, added by The Puppy Wizard, HOWEver
: they were NOT SIGNIFICANT, except for poetic license:
:
: You're a liar and a dog abuser and a MENTAL CASE:
:
: "When it was obvious that she had NO intention
: of paying any attention to anything but the other
: dogs (and that I was in danger of having my arm
: dislocated <G>), I didn't even think about it; I
: dropped the leash, threw my right arm over the
: Lab's shoulder, grabbed her opposite foot with
: my left hand, rolled her on her side, leaned on
: her, said "GRRRR!" and nipped her ear (not
: particularly hard- I wasn't trying to *hurt* her,
: just get her attention!)."
:
: From: Sionnach (***@msn.com)
: Subject: Re: I dropped the leash!
: Date: 2003-12-15 07:55:16 PST
:
: > "I Dropped The Leash, Threw My Right Arm
: > Over The Lab's Shoulder, Grabbed Her Opposite
: > Foot With My Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
: > Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into Her Throat
: > And Said "GRRRR!" And Neatly Nipped Her Ear,"
:
: <yawn> That's not a quote written by me, kiddo.
: That's an amalgam of two different people's posts,
: with extra words added by Jerry.
:
: From: Sionnach (***@msn.com)
: Subject: Re: another question from me and joy?
:
: Date: 2002-04-10 19:40:33 PST:



: "BethF" wrote:


: > I don't think any of our regulars bite their dogs ears
: > to leash train them.
:
: He's repeating one of Jerry's confabulations... I did,
: once, lightly nip a seriously out-of-control, temper-
: tantruming Labrador on the ear to get her attention.
:
: It had fuck-all to do with leash training though, and
: everything to do with getting through to an incredibly
: hard-headed, tough-minded, and spoiled-rotten dog
: that A. she was NOT going to physically control me
: the way she had every other female human she'd dealt
: with and B. that I was worth paying attention to.
:
: It came up in a discussion where someone else
: mentioned having nipped a terrier puppy who
: wouldn't stop play-biting. In both cases, it was a
: one-time instinctive response to an unusual situation.


--------------------



: sinofabitch writes:


: > >> What I have said- repeatedly - is that he
: > >> took posts from two different people,
: > >> took pieces of them out of context,
: > >> cobbled them together,
: > >> then added his own words:
:
: "Neatly," and "Smartly."
:
: > >> and a fake signature.
:
: "sinofabitch" instead of sionnach.
:
: > >> Which is exactly what he did.
: > >> The actual quote is misleading
: > >> when taken out of context, and Jerry's
: > >> faked "quote" is downright meaningless.


: > > Here's Jerry's version


: > > "I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
: > > Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
: > > Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
: > > Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
: > > Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
: > > Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
: > > Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.


: > > Here's yours;



: > > "I dropped the leash, threw my
: > > right arm over the Lab's shoulder,
: > > grabbed her opposite foot with my
: > > left hand, rolled her on her side,
: > > leaned on her, said "GRRRR!" and
: > > nipped her ear.
: > > --Sara Sionnach


BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!


See?
You have mentioned Jerry's methods,
Yeah. "Seem" Reginald has been a STUDENT for TEN YEARS.
which I agree are much kinder and often more effective than the forceful
methods advocated by Janet and other more traditional
trainers,
IN FACT, it's the ONLY 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL METHOD
in the WHOWEL WILD WORLD, bar NONE, paulie.

The ONLY PROBLEM is, you gotta STUDY an
follHOWE IT PRECISELY otherWIZE you will
SHORELY FAIL <{}: ~ ( >
who are actually basing much of their teaching on William Koehler's ideas,
except they do not start
with the principle of getting the dog's attention that he presented as the
fundamental foundation of all subsequent work.
INDEED? THAT'S BULLSHIT, paulie.

Jerkin an chokin an shockin an bribin the dog till
the DOG ABUSIN MENTAL CASE "gets the dog's
attention" is ABSURD, ain't it, paulie <{}: ~ ( >
Some of his methods were harsh,
"SOME", paulie?
and the newer positive methods are probably more effective and less
damaging to a dog's
trust of his handler,
Hunh?? Are you goin INSANE again, paulie?
but the training methods used by Janet do not emphasize the importance of
attention
Oh, THAT'S on accHOWENTA it's BULLSHIT, paulie.
and how to obtain it.
IN FACT, THAT'S HOWE COME YOU FAILED to
TRAIN your dog Muttley usin my EFFECTIVE methods;

YOU COULDN'T STOP JERKIN an CHOKIN Muttley
to "GET ITS ATTENTION" <{}: ~ ( >
Instead, she uses an exercise called "sit on it", which is designed to
make the dog ignore you!
You mean, JUST LIKE HOWE jerkin an chokin does, paulie?
That may be because the dogs she works with are
of the type that are always seeking your attention.
You mean they're "NEEDY" an HYPERACTIVE, paulie <{}: ~ ( >

HERE'S HOWE COME:

Sam Corson, Pavlov's Last Student Demonstrated At
UofOH, That Rehabilitation Of Hyperactive Dogs Can
Easily And Readily Be Done Using TLC. Tender Loving
Care Is At The Root Of The Scientific Management Of
Doggies.

"Postitive emotions arising in connection
with the perfection of a skill, irrespective
of its pragmatic significance at a given
moment, serve as the reinforcement. IOW,
emotions, not outside rewards, are what
reinforces any behavior," Ivan Pavlov.

"All Animals Learn Beast Through Play," Lorenz.

"Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of
"negative reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY
EVERY LEARNING THEORY model involves
the USE OF PUNISHMENT.

Of curse, Skinner has never to my knowledge,
demonstrated HOWE we escape the phenomenon
that an expected reward not received is experienced
as a punishment and can produce extensive and
persistent aggression (Azrin et al, 1966)."

A. S. Neill, The Famous Founder of The Summerhill
School, Used To Cure Delinquent Children Way Back
In The 1950's By Paying Them For Every Time They
Wet The Bed Or Broke A Pane Of Glass And Their
Behaviour Would Stop, - As If By MAGICK!

-------------

The Embry Study:

"While some may find it strange that reprimands
might increase the chances of a child going into
the street, the literature on the experimental analysis
of behavior is replete with examples of how "attention
to inappropriate behavior" increases the chances of
more inappropriate behavior.

Thus, suggestions to parents that they
talk to or reason with their children about
dashing into the street will likely to have
the opposite impact.

Reprimands do not punish
unsafe behavior; they reward it."

Source:

"Reducing the Risk of Pedestrian Accidents to
Preschoolers by Parent Training and Symbolic
Modeling for Children: An Experimental Analysis
in the Natural Environment. Research Report
Number 2 of the Safe-Playing Project."

--------------

"Motivation Of The Resistance To Coercion "-- PAVLOV:

"Reflexes of purpose and freedom" in the comparative
physiology of higher nervous activity, Institute of
Higher Nervous Activity and Neurophysiology, Academy
of Sciences, Moscow:

The most complex unconditioned "reflexes of aim and
freedom," discovered by I.P. Pavlov, are compared
with the "competence drive" and the "motivation of the
resistance to coercion," respectively, described by
contemporary ethologists.

On the basis of the unconditioned "reflex of purpose,"
conditioned reflexes were developed in which positive
emotions arising in connection with the perfection of
a skill, irrespective of its pragmatic significance at
a given moment, serve as the reinforcement.

The unconditioned "reflex of freedom" is regarded as a
phylogenetic precursor of the will, and its acute extinction
as the physiological mechanism of hypnosis. It was
demonstrated experimentally that the appearance of the
state of "animal hypnosis" (immobilization catatonia) in
rabbits is accompanied by the predominance of electrical
activity and heat production in the right hemisphere, i.e.,
by symptoms which are found in hypnosis in man.

Simonov PV</h4>
Publication Types:<ul><li>Review</li><li>Review,
tutorial</li></ul>PMID: 2215892, UI: 91015681</blockquote>
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0
<transitional//en">
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=2215892&am
p;form=6&db=m&Dopt=bNeurosciBehavPhysiol1990May-Jun;20(3):230-5
-------------------

"It is NO WONDER that the marked changes in
deviant behavior of children can be achieved
through brief, simple educative routines with
their mothers which modify the mother's social
behaviors shaping the child (Whaler, 1966).

Some clinics have reported ELIMINATION of the
need for child THERAPY through changing the
clinical emphasis from clinical to parental HANDLING
of the child (Szrynski 1965).

A large number of cases improved sufficiently after
preliminary contact with parents that NO treatment
of children was required, and almost ALL cases
SHOWE a remarkably shortened period for therapy.
Quite severe cases of anorexia nervosa have been
treated in own to five months by simply REPLACING
the parents temporarily with EFFUSIVELY LOVING
SUBSTITUTES (Groen, 1966)."

"The IMBECILITY of some of the claims for operant
technique simply take the breath away. Lovas et al
(1966) report a standard contingent reward/punishment
procedure developing imitative speech in two severly
disturbed non verbal schizophrenic boys. After twenty-
six days the boys are reported to have been learning
new words with alacrity. HOWEver, when REWARDS
were moved to a delayed contingency the behavoir and
learning immediately deteriorated.

Programs utilizing the "contingencies of reinforcement
model" proposed by Skinner (1963) are no more well
established in research than the various dynamic therapists.

Research in four areas :

1) direct evaluation of programmed systems for learning;
2) reinforcement;
3) cognitive dissonance; and
4) motivation, MOST SURELY DEMOLISH
the claims of operant programers."

----------------------
My dog is very aloof, and is happy to ignore me
Naaaaah??
unless he is hungry or wants to go out.
You mean your RESCUE dog Muttley DON'T CARE??
I tried Jerry's methods,
No you didn't paulie, you pathetic miserable stinkin
rotten lyin animal murderin MENTAL CASE; you're
a lyin sack of CRAP <{}: ~ ( >
and they just did not work for me.
You're full of CRAP, paulie; you never even
read the text; all you done was EDIT HOWET
the EMBARRASSING QUOTES I CITED when
you posted it on your website <{}: ~ ( >

The WON EXXXORCISE you "tried" DIDN'T
WORK on accHOWENTA YOU COULDN'T
STOP JERKIN an CHOKIN your RESCUE
dog Muttley:

paulie wrote:
Your non-violent methods for dogs ring hollow
when you use verbal violence against other dog
owners, thus triggering their own opposition
reflexes. I will try other non-violent methods
that communicate what is expected of the dog.

And I don't believe that proper use of a prong
collar or choker chain are evil and physically
hurtful.

[snip verbal abuse]

So you think it is effective to withold praise,
but offer it as a bribe to get people to follow
your methods? Or promise you will stop beating
them if they obey your commands? Yet never do
it for a dog?

Paul and Muttley (almost fully recovered from
Arbitrary Praise Neurosis)

"so now he accuses me of yanking and choking my
dog on a prong collar to force him into obedience,"

(See, I give praise!) (but not for bad behaviors...)

----------------
The naysayers in this newsgroup put him down by misquoting some parts of
his manual
You mean they LIE, paulie?

CITES PLEASE?
or referring to an ancient version.
CITES PLEASE, paulie? There was ONLY
WON version first posted RIGHT HERE; you'll
FIND IT RIGHT HERE IF YOU LOOK FOR IT.
He does not advocate spiking a dog's temperature, or throwing penny cans
*at* the dog.
You mean, THAT'S ALL LIES made up by the
LYIN ANIMAL MURDERIN MENTAL CASES, paulie?
Maybe his methods would have worked on Muttley,
You mean, had you not CHOSEN to JERK an
CHOKE your RESCUE dog Muttley to MAKE
IT PAY ATTENTION to you, you pathetic piece
of CRAP??:

paulie wrote:

Your non-violent methods for dogs ring hollow
when you use verbal violence against other dog
owners, thus triggering their own opposition
reflexes. I will try other non-violent methods
that communicate what is expected of the dog.

And I don't believe that proper use of a prong
collar or choker chain are evil and physically
hurtful.

[snip verbal abuse]

So you think it is effective to withold praise,
but offer it as a bribe to get people to follow
your methods? Or promise you will stop beating
them if they obey your commands? Yet never do
it for a dog?

Paul and Muttley (almost fully recovered from
Arbitrary Praise Neurosis)

"so now he accuses me of yanking and choking my
dog on a prong collar to force him into obedience,"

(See, I give praise!) (but not for bad behaviors...)

----------------
but Jerry "turned on me" when I reported my perceived failure with his
first exercise,
The EXXXORCISE WORKED, paulie; YOU FAILED IT
*and* your RESCUE dog Muttley on accHOWENTA *you*
COULDN'T STOP JERKIN an CHOKIN IT <{}: ~ ( >
so I never went on to the next.
No, paulie; you NEVER WENT ON TO THE NEXT
on accHOWENTA YOU DIDN'T LIKE NOT HAVIN
Muttley's ATTENTION, you pathetic needy MENTAL
CASE <{}: ~ ( >
My reading about positive methods, using treats and rewards in combination
with well-timed use of a clicker and verbal commands, seems to make
sense,
Yeah, it WOULD if you DIDN'T UNDERSTAND the
reason dogs become HYPERACTIVE and NEUROTIC
and have NEURO-PSYCHOGENIC APUPOLEPTIC
SEIZURES <{}: ~ ( >
and it is based on successful training of various
creatures such as dolphins and killer whales for
whom forceful corrections and physical assertion
of dominance would not work.
An don't forget LIONS an TIGERS, paulie.

You're FULL OF CRAP. The clickeroo's FAIL just
as DISMALLY as the ABUSERS, paulie, for the
SCIENTIFIC REASONS mentioned pryor <{}: ~ ( >
But it does require a solid understanding of the principles and a very
good sense of timing.
Take your LIES IDIOCY ABUSE and INSANITY elsewhere.
My observation of a positive obedience class.
with Muttley in attendance, was not very encouraging,
as the other dogs snarked at each other and the handlers were frantically
clicking and treating as they tried to get their dogs to walk with a loose
leash.
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
Meanwhile Muttley just sat at my side or lay quietly,
and the instructor even remarked he was the best behaved dog in the class.
You mean, WATCHING the "class", paulie.

When you took your RESCUE dog Muttley to a
other PROFESSIONAL DOG BEHAVIORIST you
PERMITTED the ABUSER to throw Muttley TREATS
an then JERK an CHOKE him for goin after them.

I'll NOT CITE your post this time, it's TRUE and you
ain't gonna DENY IT, would you, paulie <{}: ~ ( >
But I realize that the students were still learning,
That so, paulie? Then HOWE COME THEY DIDN'T "LEARN"?
and there was one dog who was particularly reactive which made it hard for
the others to pay attention.
THAT SO?
HTH,
INDEED <{}: ~ ) >
Paul and Muttley
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!:

paulie wrote:

Your non-violent methods for dogs ring hollow
when you use verbal violence against other dog
owners, thus triggering their own opposition
reflexes. I will try other non-violent methods
that communicate what is expected of the dog.

And I don't believe that proper use of a prong
collar or choker chain are evil and physically
hurtful.

[snip verbal abuse]

So you think it is effective to withold praise,
but offer it as a bribe to get people to follow
your methods? Or promise you will stop beating
them if they obey your commands? Yet never do
it for a dog?

Paul and Muttley (almost fully recovered from
Arbitrary Praise Neurosis)

"so now he accuses me of yanking and choking my
dog on a prong collar to force him into obedience,"

(See, I give praise!) (but not for bad behaviors...)

----------------
Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
2009-03-21 02:47:50 UTC
Permalink
HOWEDY taragreen2 you pathetic miserable
stinkin rotten lyin animal murderin punk thug
coward active acute chronic life long INCURABLE
DRUNKEN DRUG CRAZED MENTAL PATIENT
and professional dog trainin FRAUD an SCAM
ARTIST cum JUNK JEWELER <{}: ~ ( >
Oh brother. Not too manipulative are you?
"If you guys were only nicer to me I wouldn't
be such an asshole." "It's all your fault waaah"
No WON FORCED paulie to permit janet to
ABUSE his "RESCUE" dog Muttley <{}: ~ ( >

LIKE THIS:

"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him
a stern correction" --Janet Boss

http://tinyurl.com/5m6ppt

"Rudy is going to start learning the e-collar this week.
I'm sure you'll NOT hear screams from across the pond."

"J1Boss" <***@aol.com> wrote in message news:***@mb-m18.aol.com...

He was next to me and I could see his neck
muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.

Janet Boss
I can't imagine needing anything higher than a 5
with it, even with an insensitive dog like a Lab.
An INSENSITIVE DOG???
I can't remember what model of Innotek I have,
but I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.
========

BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!

SEE?
Well, in every topic that revolves around Paul, thats pretty much what it
all boils down to: zero responsibility for his own actions.
You mean, LIKE THIS?:

Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <***@smart.net> wrote

It is a shame that Muttley will probably be put
down (his appointment is next Wednesday),

Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <***@smart.net> wrote

<snip>

If I did not have to worry about my cat, I would
probably keep him, and I am certain I could avoid
any more dangerous episodes. I probably would
not have taken him to obedience classes at this time
if that was not such a difficult issue, and if people
here had not essentially shamed me into doing so.

Then he would only be a bratty dog with a mind of
his own, but he would not have been identified as
dangerous.
--------------------------

Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death

"Paul E. Schoen" <***@smart.net> wrote

Hello everyone:

If you have followed some of my posts, you know
something about the ongoing story of Muttley, the
large GSD/Chow dog I have been trying to adopt
or place in a better home.

I will add a bit more history later in this post.

Last Tuesday, toward the end of Janet's obedience
class, Muttley and I had just finished fairly successfully
performing a sit/stay/come routine, and then he was
sitting by my side.

The final routine was to be a "down", which Muttley
has had some difficulty with, and frankly I have not
had the time to work with him much on that.

I was kneeling at his side, trying to hold his collar
while pushing his front legs down to the position,
while he resisted. Suddenly he lunged, knocking
me over onto the parking lot, and I lost grip of the
leash as I reflexively broke my fall.

Muttley took the opportunity to attack a young black
male Lab to my left, and it was a very brutal attack.
Janet and the instructors tried to gain control, and as
soon as I could get to my feet I grabbed the leash and
pulled him off.

That was the end of the class, and the other dog,
Bernie, was taken to an animal hospital for treatment.

When everyone had left, Janet counseled me about
what should be done about Muttley.

She said this was more than ordinary aggression,
and only intensive (and expensive) one on one
training would have any chance at working, and
in any case, he was not suited to group training.

She advised me that Muttley could be dangerous,
and she recommended that he be euthanized.

"They can't all be saved".

<snip>

--------------
some of the regulars took issue with my reference
to my own bad experience with correction-based
dog training as offered by Janet Boss,
Here's janet trainin paulie's dog to be FRIENDLY:

#2 - 6/05/07
When I was training him under Janet's supervision
I was instructed to give it a ? firm yank as a correction.
I advised you to use a prong collar, not give firm
yanks on a chain choke collar. I hate the things.
"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him a
stern correction" --Janet Boss
http://tinyurl.com/5m6ppt
She was able to get his attention with
just a quick tug, but I had to yank on it
hard enough to lift him off his feet to get
him to respond. Looking back now, I think
it was based on his fear, which he had for
her (as an unknown), but not for me
(whom he had learned to trust).
He wasn't afraid of me. He knew I was a
confident trainer. Fear has no place in dog
training, as I told you THEN.
Janet
"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him a
stern correction" --Janet Boss
http://tinyurl.com/5m6ppt

It seems to me that applying stern corrections, by
popping a choker chain, prong collar, or whatever,
is a way to ensure compliance by instilling a fear
of further punishment.

Sure, if it is administered very consistently
by a confident trainer, the dog soon learns
to obey. There was no positive reinforcement,
so what remains is negative.

Also, I recall the time you were going to show me
how I could get Muttley to take his rawhide treat
from me without lunging for it. When you offered
it to him, he refused to take it. This IMHO is likely
a fear behavior.

Things have changed a lot since then, and I have
learned a lot, and Muttley has settled down quite
a bit. I probably still give him too much freedom
to think on his own, but that's just my way of
doing things, and that's probably not going to
change much. He may never win an obedience
medal, but I don't think he is dangerously out
of control, either.

Paul and Muttley

----------------

BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!

paulie CONtinues:

"I thought I was told that the way to get the dog to go
down was to make him sit and then step on the leash.
That was awkward and didn't seem to work.

I will confess that I only tried the "down" position
once or twice at home, and I also often used it
instead of "Off" when I wanted him to stop
jumping on me or elsewhere I didn't want him to be.

I had to give him corrections every few seconds,
and also just about kick him, to keep him at my
left side.

Muttley is really a very sweet and loving dog, but
he needs more socialization with other dogs. However,
it is very likely that I will have him put down in a week."

Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <***@smart.net> wrote

It is a shame that Muttley will probably be put
down (his appointment is next Wednesday),

-----------------------

BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!

THAT'S quite a SUCCESS STORY, AIN'T IT??
This simply fits his pattern.
You mean, LIKE THIS?:

paulie wrote:

Your non-violent methods for dogs ring hollow
when you use verbal violence against other dog
owners, thus triggering their own opposition
reflexes. I will try other non-violent methods
that communicate what is expected of the dog.

And I don't believe that proper use of a prong
collar or choker chain are evil and physically
hurtful.

[snip verbal abuse]

So you think it is effective to withold praise,
but offer it as a bribe to get people to follow
your methods? Or promise you will stop beating
them if they obey your commands? Yet never do
it for a dog?

Paul and Muttley (almost fully recovered from
Arbitrary Praise Neurosis)

"so now he accuses me of yanking and choking my
dog on a prong collar to force him into obedience,"

(See, I give praise!) (but not for bad behaviors...)

----------------

SEE?

HOWEver, it AIN'T like as if paulie AIN'T ALWAYS
been a dog abusin COWARD an MENTAL CASE:

Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life Or Death

"I have a very vivid and terrible memory of the time
when my dog was viciously attacked by a larger dog
in the woods near our house.

The girl who owned the dog was beating it
with a stick, and I stabbed it in the neck.

Both dogs survived, but after that, I always
carried a stout stick with me when walking
our dog.

This was back in the 60s, when leash laws
were very lax or non-existent, and before
everybody was lawsuit crazy, and when the
few drug dealers and thugs in the few bad
areas of town were deathly afraid of all big
dogs," paul e. schoen.

--------------------------

SEE?
Positive reinforcement only works on behaviors that aren't
"self-rewarding".
CITES PLEASE, tara?

You're FULL OF CRAP.

What *you* call "positive reinforcement" is ABUSE on
accHOWENTA EFFECTIVE SCIENTIFIC Pavlovian
and Ericksonian CONditioning Techniques WORK
NEARLY INSTANTLY ON ALL CRITTERS <{}: ~ ) >
Paul has a strong vested interest in being rewarded by his own inflated
sense of victimization. Can't "ignore" that kind of thing into extinction.
Of curse not; on accHOWENTA ANY behavior that's
IGNORED, AVOIDED or REPRESSED will only GET
WORSE or CHANGE to other anXXXIHOWESNESS
RELIEF MECHANISMS or TRAINsfer behaviors.

HOWEver, you KNEW THAT, didn't you, taragreen2 <{}: ~ ) >

HERE'S HOWE COME:


The Methods, Principles And Philosophy Of Behavior
Never Change,
Or They'd Not Be Scientific
And Could Not Obtain
Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Effective, Safe Results
For All Handler's And All Critters,
And ALL Behaviors
In ALL FIELDS And ALL UTILITIES,
ALL OVER The Whole Wild World,
NEARLY INSTANTLY,
As Taught In Your Own FREE Copy Of
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
A-M-A-Z-I-N-G
M-A-J-E-S-T-I-C
G-R-A-N-D
M-A-S-T-E-R
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey
SpHOWES And Horsey Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
***FREE***
WWW Wits' End Dog, Child, Kat, Goat, Ferret, Monkey
SpHOWES And Horsey
Training Method Manual<{) ; ~ )>

SEE??




Disciple Paulie Sez:


"No One Understands How Wits End Training
Really Works; They Assume It's All Nicey Nicey
And don't Realise It's A Very Disciplined Method
That Deals With Any Situation And The Foundation
Is Built On Trust And Understanding.


I've never forced my dogs to do anything,
I tell them they are good dogs and they
seem to follow me, onceI told them they
were bad dogs and they ran away from me,
now I only ever tell them they are good dogs
and they always are, always.


Trust your dog, ask it to do your request and say
"good dog" sincerely at the end of the request and
I bet you'll find your dog thinking then responding
everytime.


A Bit Of Respect Works Wonders,
The Same Rule Applies
To Every Aspect Of
The Relationship With Your Dog.


Obedience And Affection Are Not Related,
if They Were Everyone Would Have
Obedient Dogs.


I Have Found Giving Dogs "Payment" In Advance i.e.
"Sam sit goodboy" Makes The Dogs WANT TO RESPOND,
After All, All Dogs Want To Be "Good Dogs" And If
You Tell Them They Are Good Then They Feel An
Obligation To Obey Your Request.


Telling Sam He's A Good Dog AFTER He Sit's
Apart From Being Too Late Is Also A Gamble
Because If He Doesn't Sit Then There's No
Positive Interaction.


Paul


-------------------------


"The day may come when the rest of the animal creation
may acquire those rights
which never could have been withholden from them
but by the hand of tyranny.
The question is not can they REASON,
nor can they TALK,
but can they SUFFER?" -
- Jeremy Bentham


"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised
for the good of its victims,
may be the most oppressive.
Those who torment us for our own good
will torment us without end,
for they do so with the approval of
their own conscience." -
- C.S. Lewis.


"Death is better, a milder fate than tyranny",
Aeschylus (525BC-456BC),
Agamemnon.


"Only the unenlightened speak of wisdom and right action
as separate, not the wise.


If any man knows one, he enjoys the fruit of both.


The level which is reached by wisdom
is attained
through right action as well.


He who perceives that the two are one knows the truth."


"Even the wise man acts in character with his nature,
indeed all creatures act according to their natures.


What is the use of compulsion then?


The love and hate which are aroused
by the objects of sense arise from Nature,
do not yield to them.
They only obstruct the path," -
- Bhagavad Gita,
adapted by Krishna with permission
from His OWN FREE copy of The Simply
Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE Wits' End
Dog Training Method manual <{) ; ~ ) >


=====================


All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer


"Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
even tho it's a hopeless task,
in this system of things.
As long as man is ruling man,
there will be animals (and humans!)
abused and neglected. :-(
Your student," Juanita.


"If you've got them by the balls
their hearts and minds
will follow,"
John Wayne.


"Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens!"
"Against stupidity the Gods themselves contend in vain!"
-Friedrich Schiller.


INDEEDY.


AND THAT'S HOWE COME THEY GOT ME NHOWE!


In Love And Light,
I Remain Respectfully, Humbly Yours,
The World's CRUELEST Trainer
Jerry Howe,
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
A-M-A-Z-I-N-G
*M-A-J-E-S-T-I-C* *G-R-A-N-D* *M-A-S-T-E-R*
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Ferret, Goat, Monkey
SpHOWES And Horsey Wizard <{) ;~ ) >


HOWE MAY I SERVE YOU <{}; ~ ) >


Sincerely,
Jerry Howe,
Director of Research,
Human And Animal Behavior
Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory,
BIOSOUND Scientific,
Director of Training,
Wits' End Dog Training
1611 24th St
Orlando, FL 32805
Phone: 1-407-425-5092 (Call ANY TIME)
http://www.freewebs.com/thesimplyamazingpuppywizard


E-mail:


Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
@HotMail.Com


Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
@HotMail.Com


TheSimplyAmazingPuppyWizard @HotMail.Com
,-._,-,
V)"(V
(_o_) Have a great day!
/ V)
(l l l) Your Puppy Wizard. <{YPW} ; ~ } >
oo-oo




BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
2009-03-21 16:55:42 UTC
Permalink
HOWEDY luke, you pathetic miserable stinkin
rotten lyin animal an child abusin MENTAL CASE,
I'm not trying to damage Janet's livelihood, but
HOWEver, janet *IS* a lyin animal murderin MENTAL
CASE who got paulie's DEAD KAT Photon DEAD
on him when they COULDN'T TRAIN Muttley to
NOT ATTACK his DEAD KAT Photon on accHOWENTA,

HERE'S HOWE COME:

Subject: Re: redirected aggression
Date: 4/11/07

"Janet Boss" <***@bestfriendsdogobedience.com> wrote in message news:janet-***@news.individual.net...
It seems I have been dealing with this a bit lately.
Dog to dog and dog to person,, with dogs who are
obviously overstimulated by what's in front of them.

What's in front of them varies from people at the door
to dogs in their path or directly in their face. The dogs
in question all have very poor self control.

I have dog(s) with not-so-great-natural self control,
so it's something we constantly work on. We don't
have redirected stuff going on, because we have
enough obedience to avoid it.

While I know that's the big answer for the dogs in
question as well, I'm curious what things people have
found useful to redirect/focus/gain attention from
drivey dogs or just very distracted of over-the-top dogs.

We're having success with my recommendations, but I'm
always open to something novel that may be the hot ticket.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

BWEEEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA~!~!~!

SEE??
I think she needs to admit her responsibility for
what happened, even if it was only 25% or 35%.
No, paulie was a WILLING "victim":

paulie wrote:

Your non-violent methods for dogs ring hollow
when you use verbal violence against other dog
owners, thus triggering their own opposition
reflexes. I will try other non-violent methods
that communicate what is expected of the dog.

And I don't believe that proper use of a prong
collar or choker chain are evil and physically
hurtful.

[snip verbal abuse]

So you think it is effective to withold praise,
but offer it as a bribe to get people to follow
your methods? Or promise you will stop beating
them if they obey your commands? Yet never do
it for a dog?

Paul and Muttley (almost fully recovered from
Arbitrary Praise Neurosis)

"so now he accuses me of yanking and choking my
dog on a prong collar to force him into obedience,"

(See, I give praise!) (but not for bad behaviors...)

----------------

SEE?
It was not 0% as she claims.
Here's janet boss and her REAL LIFE IN PERSON
"students" paul and his RESCUE dog Muttley whom
she wanted to MURDER on accHOWENTA she
COULDN'T TRAIN Muttley to leave his DEAD KAT
Photon alone:

Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <***@smart.net> wrote

It is a shame that Muttley will probably be put
down (his appointment is next Wednesday),


Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <***@smart.net> wrote

<snip>

If I did not have to worry about my cat, I would
probably keep him, and I am certain I could avoid
any more dangerous episodes. I probably would
not have taken him to obedience classes at this time
if that was not such a difficult issue, and if people
here had not essentially shamed me into doing so.

Then he would only be a bratty dog with a mind of
his own, but he would not have been identified as
dangerous.

--------------------------

BWEEEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA~!~!~!

SEE? SEE?? SEE???

Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death

"Paul E. Schoen" <***@smart.net> wrote

Hello everyone:

If you have followed some of my posts, you know
something about the ongoing story of Muttley, the
large GSD/Chow dog I have been trying to adopt
or place in a better home.

I will add a bit more history later in this post.

Last Tuesday, toward the end of Janet's obedience
class, Muttley and I had just finished fairly successfully
performing a sit/stay/come routine, and then he was
sitting by my side.

The final routine was to be a "down", which Muttley
has had some difficulty with, and frankly I have not
had the time to work with him much on that.

I was kneeling at his side, trying to hold his collar
while pushing his front legs down to the position,
while he resisted. Suddenly he lunged, knocking
me over onto the parking lot, and I lost grip of the
leash as I reflexively broke my fall.

Muttley took the opportunity to attack a young black
male Lab to my left, and it was a very brutal attack.
Janet and the instructors tried to gain control, and as
soon as I could get to my feet I grabbed the leash and
pulled him off.

That was the end of the class, and the other dog,
Bernie, was taken to an animal hospital for treatment.

When everyone had left, Janet counseled me about
what should be done about Muttley.

She said this was more than ordinary aggression,
and only intensive (and expensive) one on one
training would have any chance at working, and
in any case, he was not suited to group training.

She advised me that Muttley could be dangerous,
and she recommended that he be euthanized.

"They can't all be saved".

<snip>

--------------


BWEEEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA~!~!~!

SEE? SEE?? SEE???

HOWEver, it AIN'T like paulie AIN'T ALWAYS
BEEN a lyin animal murderin MENTAL CASE:

Subject: Muttley: Now a question of life or death

"I have a very vivid and terrible memory of the
time when my dog wasviciously attacked by a
larger dog in the woods near our house.

The girl who owned the dog was beating it
with a stick, and I stabbed it in the neck.

Both dogs survived, but after that, I always
carried a stout stick with me when walking
our dog.

This was back in the 60s, when leash laws
were very lax or non-existent, and before
everybody was lawsuit crazy, and when the
few drug dealers and thugs in the few bad
areas of town were deathly afraid of all big
dogs," paul e. schoen.

--------------------------

SEE?

Here's janet's REAL LIFE IN PERSON "student" paul:

#2 - 6/05/07
When I was training him under Janet's supervision I
was instructed to give it a ? firm yank as a correction.
I advised you to use a prong collar, not give firm
yanks on a chain choke collar. I hate the things.
She was able to get his attention with just a
quick tug, but I had to yank on it hard enough
to lift him off his feet to get him to respond.
Looking back now, I think it was based on his
fear, which he had for her (as an unknown),
but not for me (whom he had learned to trust).
He wasn't afraid of me. He knew I was a confident
trainer.
Fear has no place in dog training, as I told you THEN.
Janet.
It seems to me that applying stern corrections, by
popping a choker chain, prong collar, or whatever,
is a way to ensure compliance by instilling a fear
of further punishment.

Sure, if it is administered very consistently
by a confident trainer, the dog soon learns
to obey. There was no positive reinforcement,
so what remains is negative.

Also, I recall the time you were going to show me
how I could get Muttley to take his rawhide treat
from me without lunging for it. When you offered
it to him, he refused to take it. This IMHO is likely
a fear behavior.

Things have changed a lot since then, and I have
learned a lot, and Muttley has settled down quite
a bit. I probably still give him too much freedom
to think on his own, but that's just my way of
doing things, and that's probably not going to
change much. He may never win an obedience
medal, but I don't think he is dangerously out
of control, either.

Paul and Muttley

"I thought I was told that the way to get the dog to go
down was to make him sit and then step on the leash.
That was awkward and didn't seem to work.

I will confess that I only tried the "down" position
once or twice at home, and I also often used it
instead of "Off" when I wanted him to stop
jumping on me or elsewhere I didn't want him to be.

I had to give him corrections every few seconds,
and also just about kick him, to keep him at my
left side.

Muttley is really a very sweet and loving dog, but
he needs more socialization with other dogs. However,
it is very likely that I will have him put down in a week."

Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <***@smart.net> wrote

It is a shame that Muttley will probably be put
down (his appointment is next Wednesday),

-----------------------

And here's paulie's SUCCESS~!:

HERE'S janet's OBEDIENCE TRAININ PARTNER:

Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
90 From: Sionnach
Date: Mon, Oct 9 2006 1:19 am
Email: "Sionnach" <***@msn.com>

*I* was thanking the Deity that the NCR trail
was not my choice of hiking area today!!!!

Sorry, Paul, but the gloves are now off, because if I HAD
chosen the NCR trail today - rather than another local trail-
you would have been putting ***MY*** beloved dogs at
risk of serious injury or death. ***MY*** DOGS.

What the FUCKING HELL is **WRONG** with you???

Your dog, which you have repeatedly admitted you can't
control, just made a near-lethal unprovoked attack on
another dog in obedience class, and you TOOK HIM
OUT ON THE TRAILS WHERE THERE ARE OTHER
DOGS?????

You do that again, when my dogs are around, and
he attacks one of them, you won't have to worry
about having him put down - I will either break his
spine or choke him to death right then and there.

I'm dead fucking serious, Mr. Schoen.

----------------------

SEE?

THAT'S quite a SUCCESS STORY, ain't it <{}: ~ ( >
The only thing she was ever sorry about was
offering her instruction to me and Muttley.
She should be ASHAMED for what she does to dogs.
When a student fails to do some homework,
or is late to class, or if he is having trouble
keeping up with the class for any reason, it
is the instructor's professional responsibility
to determine the best way to deal with that.
INDEED?

Here's the SCIENCE you PATHETIC LYIN ANIMAL
MURDERIN MENTAL CASES FEAR an HATE:

"Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of
"negative reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY
EVERY LEARNING THEORY model involves
the USE OF PUNISHMENT.

Of curse, Skinner has never to my knowledge,
demonstrated HOWE we escape the phenomenon
that an expected reward not received is experienced
as a punishment and can produce extensive and
persistent aggression (Azrin et al, 1966)."

Sam Corson, Pavlov's Last Student Demonstrated At UofOH,
That Rehabilitation Of Hyperactive Dogs Can Easily And
Readily Be Done Using TLC. Tender Loving Care Is At The
Root Of The Scientific Management Of Doggies.

"Postitive emotions arising in connection
with the perfection of a skill, irrespective
of its pragmatic significance at a given
moment, serve as the reinforcement. IOW,
emotions, not outside rewards, are what
reinforces any behavior," Ivan Pavlov.

"All Animals Learn Beast Through Play," Lorenz.

A. S. Neill, The Famous Founder of The Summerhill
School, Used To Cure Delinquent Children Way Back
In The 1950's By Paying Them For Every Time They
Wet The Bed Or Broke A Pane Of Glass And Their
Behaviour Would Stop, - As If By MAGICK!

-------------

The Embry Study:

"While some may find it strange that reprimands
might increase the chances of a child going into
the street, the literature on the experimental analysis
of behavior is replete with examples of how "attention
to inappropriate behavior" increases the chances of
more inappropriate behavior.

Thus, suggestions to parents that they
talk to or reason with their children about
dashing into the street will likely to have
the opposite impact.

Reprimands do not punish unsafe behavior; they reward it."

Source:
"Reducing the Risk of Pedestrian Accidents to
Preschoolers by Parent Training and Symbolic
Modeling for Children: An Experimental Analysis
in the Natural Environment. Research Report
Number 2 of the Safe-Playing Project."

--------------

"Motivation Of The Resistance To Coercion "-- PAVLOV:

"Reflexes of purpose and freedom" in the comparative
physiology of higher nervous activity, Institute of
Higher Nervous Activity and Neurophysiology, Academy
of Sciences, Moscow:

The most complex unconditioned "reflexes of aim and
freedom," discovered by I.P. Pavlov, are compared
with the "competence drive" and the "motivation of the
resistance to coercion," respectively, described by
contemporary ethologists.

On the basis of the unconditioned "reflex of purpose,"
conditioned reflexes were developed in which positive
emotions arising in connection with the perfection of
a skill, irrespective of its pragmatic significance at
a given moment, serve as the reinforcement.

The unconditioned "reflex of freedom" is regarded as a
phylogenetic precursor of the will, and its acute extinction
as the physiological mechanism of hypnosis. It was
demonstrated experimentally that the appearance of the
state of "animal hypnosis" (immobilization catatonia) in
rabbits is accompanied by the predominance of electrical
activity and heat production in the right hemisphere, i.e.,
by symptoms which are found in hypnosis in man.

Simonov PV</h4>
Publication Types:<ul><li>Review</li><li>Review,
tutorial</li></ul>PMID: 2215892, UI: 91015681</blockquote>
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0
<transitional//en">

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=2215892&am
p;form=6&db=m&Dopt=bNeurosciBehavPhysiol1990May-Jun;20(3):230-5

-------------------

"It is NO WONDER that the marked changes in
deviant behavior of children can be achieved
through brief, simple educative routines with
their mothers which modify the mother's social
behaviors shaping the child (Whaler, 1966).

Some clinics have reported ELIMINATION of the
need for child THERAPY through changing the
clinical emphasis from clinical to parental HANDLING
of the child (Szrynski 1965).

A large number of cases improved sufficiently after
preliminary contact with parents that NO treatment
of children was required, and almost ALL cases
SHOWE a remarkably shortened period for therapy.
Quite severe cases of anorexia nervosa have been
treated in own to five months by simply REPLACING
the parents temporarily with EFFUSIVELY LOVING
SUBSTITUTES (Groen, 1966)."

"The IMBECILITY of some of the claims for operant
technique simply take the breath away. Lovas et al
(1966) report a standard contingent reward/punishment
procedure developing imitative speech in two severly
disturbed non verbal schizophrenic boys. After twenty-
six days the boys are reported to have been learning
new words with alacrity. HOWEver, when REWARDS
were moved to a delayed contingency the behavoir and
learning immediately deteriorated.

Programs utilizing the "contingencies of reinforcement
model" proposed by Skinner (1963) are no more well
established in research than the various dynamic therapists.

Research in four areas :

1) direct evaluation of programmed systems for learning;
2) reinforcement;
3) cognitive dissonance; and
4) motivation, MOST SURELY DEMOLISH
the claims of operant programers."

----------------------
Have him sit out, or practice something
he can be successful at,
Oh, you mean LIKE THIS, you pathetic miserable
stinkin rotten lyin animal murderin MENTAL CASES?

Meanwhile, back at the NUT HOWES:

"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him
a stern correction" --Janet Boss

http://tinyurl.com/5m6ppt

"Rudy is going to start learning the e-collar this week.
I'm sure you'll NOT hear screams from across the pond."

"J1Boss" <***@aol.com> wrote in message news:***@mb-m18.aol.com...

He was next to me and I could see his neck
muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.

Janet Boss
I can't imagine needing anything higher than a 5
with it, even with an insensitive dog like a Lab.
An INSENSITIVE DOG???
I can't remember what model of Innotek I have,
but I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.
========
or send him home.
You mean instead of PROTECTING ALL her VICTIMS?
But not allow him to struggle and apply
excessive and ineffective corrections to
a dog who was clearly stressed out and
unable to learn.
You dog lovers WANT to HURT your deathly
ill neurotic dogs to compensate for your own
fragile defective egos, weak fearful minds and
colossal inferiority complexes <{}:~ ( >
All the dog training books I have read say
that learning cannot take place when a dog,
or the handler, is stressed out.
Naaaah?
If Janet cannot recognize that and take
appropriate action in her classes,
She DID; janet HURT and INTIMIDATED Muttley
some more, JUST LIKE HOWE paulie PREFERRED:

paulie wrote:
Your non-violent methods for dogs ring hollow
when you use verbal violence against other dog
owners, thus triggering their own opposition
reflexes. I will try other non-violent methods
that communicate what is expected of the dog.

And I don't believe that proper use of a prong
collar or choker chain are evil and physically
hurtful.

[snip verbal abuse]

So you think it is effective to withold praise,
but offer it as a bribe to get people to follow
your methods? Or promise you will stop beating
them if they obey your commands? Yet never do
it for a dog?

Paul and Muttley (almost fully recovered from
Arbitrary Praise Neurosis)

"so now he accuses me of yanking and choking my
dog on a prong collar to force him into obedience,"

(See, I give praise!) (but not for bad behaviors...)

----------------

SEE?
then yes, I believe she can be dangerous and
I would like anyone reading this to realize that
and make their own decision.
No, paulie was a WILLING "victim":

paulie wrote:

Your non-violent methods for dogs ring hollow
when you use verbal violence against other dog
owners, thus triggering their own opposition
reflexes. I will try other non-violent methods
that communicate what is expected of the dog.

And I don't believe that proper use of a prong
collar or choker chain are evil and physically
hurtful.

[snip verbal abuse]

So you think it is effective to withold praise,
but offer it as a bribe to get people to follow
your methods? Or promise you will stop beating
them if they obey your commands? Yet never do
it for a dog?

Paul and Muttley (almost fully recovered from
Arbitrary Praise Neurosis)

"so now he accuses me of yanking and choking my
dog on a prong collar to force him into obedience,"

(See, I give praise!) (but not for bad behaviors...)

----------------
Paul - What you've written above, about a student
falling behind, being late, not doing homework, etc
is true. For a kindergartener!
paulie is a lyin animal murderin MENTAL CASE, like *you*:


Subject: Muttley: Now a question of life or death

"I have a very vivid and terrible memory of the
time when my dog wasviciously attacked by a
larger dog in the woods near our house.

The girl who owned the dog was beating it
with a stick, and I stabbed it in the neck.

Both dogs survived, but after that, I always
carried a stout stick with me when walking
our dog.

This was back in the 60s, when leash laws
were very lax or non-existent, and before
everybody was lawsuit crazy, and when the
few drug dealers and thugs in the few bad
areas of town were deathly afraid of all big
dogs," paul e. schoen.

--------------------------

SEE?
Grow up.
THIS IS the BIG TIME, dog abuser <{}: ~ ( >
If you are too busy to do the needed work, if you
can't be bothered to show up on time, if you can't
be bothered to take responsibility for you and your
dog struggling - well, that's all on you, as an adult.
paulie was bein TAUGHT HOWE to HURT and
INTIMIDATE his "RESCUE" dog Muttley TILL IT
WENT INSANE an ATTACKED his DEAD KAT
Photon and a innocent defenseless puppy in
janet's PROFESSIONAL OBEDIENCE TRAININ CLASS.

LIKE THIS:



Meanwhile, back at the NUT HOWES:

"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him
a stern correction" --Janet Boss

http://tinyurl.com/5m6ppt

"Rudy is going to start learning the e-collar this week.
I'm sure you'll NOT hear screams from across the pond."

"J1Boss" <***@aol.com> wrote in message news:***@mb-m18.aol.com...

He was next to me and I could see his neck
muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.

Janet Boss
I can't imagine needing anything higher than a 5
with it, even with an insensitive dog like a Lab.
An INSENSITIVE DOG???
I can't remember what model of Innotek I have,
but I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.
========

SEE?

janet ADMITTED HER ABUSIVE METHODS DON'T WORK
and CAUSES AGGRESSION:


Subject: Re: redirected aggression
Date: 4/11/07

"Janet Boss" <***@bestfriendsdogobedience.com> wrote in message news:janet-***@news.individual.net...
It seems I have been dealing with this a bit lately.
Dog to dog and dog to person,, with dogs who are
obviously overstimulated by what's in front of them.

What's in front of them varies from people at the door
to dogs in their path or directly in their face. The dogs
in question all have very poor self control.

I have dog(s) with not-so-great-natural self control,
so it's something we constantly work on. We don't
have redirected stuff going on, because we have
enough obedience to avoid it.

While I know that's the big answer for the dogs in
question as well, I'm curious what things people have
found useful to redirect/focus/gain attention from
drivey dogs or just very distracted of over-the-top dogs.

We're having success with my recommendations, but I'm
always open to something novel that may be the hot ticket.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

-------------------

SEE??

BWEEEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA~!~!~!
You are missing the picture here.
That so, you pathetic piece of crap? Your own
POSTED CASE HISTORY AIN'T NO BETTER~!
You are an ADULT.
An *you* are a MORON and OBFUSCATIONIST <{}: ~ ( >
No more hand holding.
Your own POSTED CASE HISTORY IDENTIFIES
EXXXPOSES an DISCREDITS you as a dog abusin
COWARD an MENTAL CASE <{}: ~ ( >
You need to speak up if you feel you are falling
behind, unable to do the required tasks, whatever.
The "assignment" was to HURT and INTIMIDATE
paulie's RESCUE DOG Muttley <{}: ~ ( >

LIKE THIS:

Here's janet's REAL LIFE IN PERSON "student" paul:

#2 - 6/05/07
When I was training him under Janet's supervision I
was instructed to give it a ? firm yank as a correction.
I advised you to use a prong collar, not give firm
yanks on a chain choke collar. I hate the things.
She was able to get his attention with just a
quick tug, but I had to yank on it hard enough
to lift him off his feet to get him to respond.
Looking back now, I think it was based on his
fear, which he had for her (as an unknown),
but not for me (whom he had learned to trust).
He wasn't afraid of me. He knew I was a confident
trainer.
Fear has no place in dog training, as I told you THEN.
Janet.
It seems to me that applying stern corrections, by
popping a choker chain, prong collar, or whatever,
is a way to ensure compliance by instilling a fear
of further punishment.

Sure, if it is administered very consistently
by a confident trainer, the dog soon learns
to obey. There was no positive reinforcement,
so what remains is negative.

Also, I recall the time you were going to show me
how I could get Muttley to take his rawhide treat
from me without lunging for it. When you offered
it to him, he refused to take it. This IMHO is likely
a fear behavior.

Things have changed a lot since then, and I have
learned a lot, and Muttley has settled down quite
a bit. I probably still give him too much freedom
to think on his own, but that's just my way of
doing things, and that's probably not going to
change much. He may never win an obedience
medal, but I don't think he is dangerously out
of control, either.

Paul and Muttley

"I thought I was told that the way to get the dog to go
down was to make him sit and then step on the leash.
That was awkward and didn't seem to work.

I will confess that I only tried the "down" position
once or twice at home, and I also often used it
instead of "Off" when I wanted him to stop
jumping on me or elsewhere I didn't want him to be.

I had to give him corrections every few seconds,
and also just about kick him, to keep him at my
left side.

Muttley is really a very sweet and loving dog, but
he needs more socialization with other dogs. However,
it is very likely that I will have him put down in a week."

Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <***@smart.net> wrote

It is a shame that Muttley will probably be put
down (his appointment is next Wednesday),

-----------------------

SEE??
If you need extra help, you ask.
INDEED?

You mean, ask a lyin animal murderin MENTAL PATIENT
LIKE *YOU*??

Meanwhile, back at the NUT HOWES:

"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him
a stern correction" --Janet Boss

http://tinyurl.com/5m6ppt

"Rudy is going to start learning the e-collar this week.
I'm sure you'll NOT hear screams from across the pond."

"J1Boss" <***@aol.com> wrote in message news:***@mb-m18.aol.com...

He was next to me and I could see his neck
muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.

Janet Boss
I can't imagine needing anything higher than a 5
with it, even with an insensitive dog like a Lab.
An INSENSITIVE DOG???
I can't remember what model of Innotek I have,
but I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.
========
You don't fumble along, holding up the actual
paying students because you didn't do the work.
You mean on accHOWENTA paulie COULDN'T
LEARN HOWE to pupperly ABUSE his dog?

Here's the SCIENCE you MENTAL CASES FEAR an HATE:

B.F. Skinner: Re-evaluation of Punishment

Punishment, unfortunately traditionally overused,
actually has been proven not effective at long-
term behavioral change, and creatures will find
other ways of getting what it wants. In "Freedom
and the control of men" American Scholar, Winter
1955-56, 25, 47-65. 1956 he states:

If we no longer resort to torture in what we call
the civilized world, we nevertheless still make
extensive use of punitive techniques in both
domestic and foreign relations. And apparently for
good reasons. Nature if not God has created man
in such a way that he can be controlled punitively.

People quickly become skillful punishers (if not,
thereby, skillful controllers), whereas alternative
positive measures are not easily learned.

The need for punishment seems to have the support
of history, and alternative practices threaten the
cherished values of freedom and dignity.

Fear involved with punishment causes frustration:
with typical results loathing, hostility and apathy.
Skinner's teaching on the superiority of posittive
reinforcement's benefits for keeping desired behavior
have proved very valuable.

----------------------------

SEE??

In the followin SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH STUDY, you
may substitute pronged spiked pinch or slip choke collars
for shock and add PUNISHMENT, SCOLDING an offerin
an witholdin BRIBES, attention and affection:

Psychological Effects

At issue is the question, --Do electronic training
devices elicit psychological responses?

"This section cites several research studies in which the
psychological impact of the use of electronic training devices
was analyzed. It is difficult, at best, for anyone to determine
the full psychological effect of these devices or training methods
until we can agree on exactly what constitutes a stress signal in
a domestic dog. Not only do none of the researchers agree on
what it is, but it varies from dog to dog.

It is even more difficult for humans to determine the full effect
of shock on a dog (or any animal) due to the animal's hard-wired
need to hide pain in order to survive in the wild.

Training dogs with the help of the shock collar: Short and long
term behavioral effects. (Schilder, M. & van der Borga, J. (2004).
Applied Animal Behavior Science, 85, 319-334).

The goal of this study was to determine the behavioral
changes in dogs during training using electronic training
collars. Thirty-two dogs were divided into two groups,
each receiving both general obedience and protection
training.

One group was trained with shock collars and the other group
without shock collars. The dogs trained with the shock collars
displayed signs of stress: lowering of body posture, high-pitched
yelps, barks and squeals, avoidance, redirected aggression, and
tongue flicking.

It was also noted by the authors that, even during play
and relaxed walking, the group of dogs trained with \
shock collars continued to show signs of stress while
in the company of their handler.

The authors concluded that shock-collar training is stressful;
receiving shocks is a painful experience to dogs; and the shock
group of dogs evidently learned that the presence of their owner
(or his commands) announced the reception of shocks, even
outside of the normal training context.

They suggest that the welfare of these shocked dogs
is at stake, at least in the presence of their owners.

This study has come under considerable fire because
the experience of the handlers and dogs is not clear,
and the level of shock is not stated. With that said, it
does suggest that dogs are stressed by the experience
of being shocked during training.

---------------------

SEE?



nessa wrote:


Sadly my big beautiful black Bagel went to Rainbow
Bridge on September 18 due to a severe debilitating
neck injury that left him unable to walk and in pain
when he moved his head."

LIKE THIS:


WELCOME BACK TO THE FOLD, nessa,
you pathetic miserable stinkin rotten lyin animal
murderin MENTAL CASE <{}'; ~ ) >


Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
From: Nessa <***@nessa.info>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 01:45:30 GMT


Subject: Training...


well both my kids are asleep one on my left and one on my right.
Bagel has taken to running away every chance
he gets now so I have to be ever vigilant.

I have tried every type of collar around. Flat Buckle, nylon
lobster claw slip collar, harness, gentle leader. Yesterday I
watched him on a prong collar. I SWORE I would NEVER
use a prong collar.


He willingly sits to have it put on (as opposed to fighting me
when I put on the gentle leader). He is no longer pulling on
the leash when we walk.


Currently he is doing his 30 minute quiet period next to my
chair with it on since he is leashed and he is out like a light.


So is Hannah.


I tried to find them a place to play off leash tonight since
Bagel has become a happy wanderer and I couldn't find a
safe place so they didn't get as much play as any of us would like.


I am doing my training with Janet and I am so happy.


Bagel did his sit downs tonight without much fuss and
Hannah watched from the crate. Then we let Hannah do
about 5 minutes of sit and down. She's getting good at them.


I have been rewarding with treats and tonite I didn't and
they still did what I told them to do. with Bagel on my
left with his head facing front and Hannah on my right
with her head facing back I feel like I have the most
beautiful bookends in the world.


Life with a dog..... PRICELESS


Nessa
--
I don't have issues
I have subscriptions
www.nessa.info


-----------------


SEE??


BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
He had just been successfully treated for Lyme disease too...
Lyme DIS-EASE is a STRESS INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE
DIS-EASE a.k.a. The Puppy Wizard's Syndrome <{}: ~ ( >
it was a long long summer. he was only 8.
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!

Well, Bagle lasted two years longer than janet's DEAD
DOG Franklin an three years longer than sinofabitches
DEAD DOG Rosci <{}:* ~ ( >
and Muttley would not have had the chance to prove
that he is a stable dog who was just overstressed due
to inappropriate handling that was supervised and
encouraged by the instructor, and possibly ignored,
which was even more negligent.
"I know were not "hurting" her when we hold
her down, as the force is not enough to do
any damage..."
Wow - ONE comment.
You've already said enough, nicky.
Do I do it any more?
You mean, beat your wife kids and dog, nicky?
NO.
BWEEEAAHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!

WHAT CHANGED, nicky?
Serviette?
Touche?
Yeah. SCHTUPPED... BUT GOOD, to say the least, nicky.
I dunno HOWE you do it, Jerry.
It's EZ, nicky. It's ALL in The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's Archives on Google.com, nicky.
You come on these boards to do
nothing but troll and flame and
IDENTIFY EXXXPOSE and DISCREDIT
HOWER Gang Of Lying Dog Abusing
Punk Thug Cowards and ACTIVE LONG
TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASES,
like yourself, nicky.
give NOTHING back.
Let's take your temperature?
People make mistakes -
NOT HERE.

HERE they make ON-PUPORSES.
did I Do the right thing initially with my pup? NO -
DUH-OH?
why do you think I came to post on the boards!
You came here for the SAME SAME SAME
SAME REASON the rest of these LYING DOG
ABUSING PUNK THUG COWARDS and ACTIVE
LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASES come
here, nicky. You WANTED to LEARN HOWE to
HURT and INTIMIDATE your dog ENOUGH to
MAKE IT RESPECT your G-D like AUTHORITY.
I don't so much as look at her crosseyed now,
On accHOWENTA SHE'S DEAD an BURIED <{}: ~ ( >
so why don't you stop?
And THAT would make nicky VERY VERY
VERY HAPPY, WOULD IT, nicky??

HERE'S janet's OBEDIENCE TRAININ partner
who heelped nessa BREAK HER DOG Bagel's
neck an taught them to TURN ON HER:

: From: Sionnach (***@msn.com)
: Subject: Re: another question from me and joy?
:
: Date: 2002-04-10 19:40:33 PST

: "BethF" wrote:
: > I don't think any of our regulars bite
: > their dogs ears to leash train them.
: He's repeating one of Jerry's confabulations... I did,
: once, lightly nip a seriously out-of-control, temper-
: tantruming Labrador on the ear to get her attention.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
: > <yawn> Once again- that's NOT a quote
: > from any post of mine; JH "wrote" it, not me.
:
: No, that's a flat HOWET lie, sinofabich. It's a
: direct quote from YOU, with exception of TWO
: WORDS, "smartly" and "neatly."
:
: > It's quotes from two different posts, by two
: > different people -
:
: ONLY if you're SCHIZOPHRENIC, sinofabitch.
:
: > both taken out of context-
:
: YOU'RE A LIAR.
:
: We got your original post in The Puppy Wizard's Archives.
:
: You'll see your own words EXXXACTLY as QUOTED.
: And we'll likeWIZE see you DENYING your own words
: in three different ways!!!
:
: > and with extra wording added in by a third person.
:
: NO. YOU'RE A LIAR.
:
: The ONLY "extra words," SMARTLY and NEATLY,
: were INDEEDY, added by The Puppy Wizard, HOWEver
: they were NOT SIGNIFICANT, except for poetic license:
:
: You're a liar and a dog abuser and a MENTAL CASE:
:
: "When it was obvious that she had NO intention
: of paying any attention to anything but the other
: dogs (and that I was in danger of having my arm
: dislocated <G>), I didn't even think about it; I
: dropped the leash, threw my right arm over the
: Lab's shoulder, grabbed her opposite foot with
: my left hand, rolled her on her side, leaned on
: her, said "GRRRR!" and nipped her ear (not
: particularly hard- I wasn't trying to *hurt* her,
: just get her attention!)."
:
: From: Sionnach (***@msn.com)
: Subject: Re: I dropped the leash!
: Date: 2003-12-15 07:55:16 PST
:
: > "I Dropped The Leash, Threw My Right Arm
: > Over The Lab's Shoulder, Grabbed Her Opposite
: > Foot With My Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
: > Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into Her Throat
: > And Said "GRRRR!" And Neatly Nipped Her Ear,"
:
: <yawn> That's not a quote written by me, kiddo.
: That's an amalgam of two different people's posts,
: with extra words added by Jerry.
:
: From: Sionnach (***@msn.com)
: Subject: Re: another question from me and joy?
:
: Date: 2002-04-10 19:40:33 PST:

: "BethF" wrote:
: > I don't think any of our regulars bite their
: > dogs ears to leash train them.
:
: He's repeating one of Jerry's confabulations... I did,
: once, lightly nip a seriously out-of-control, temper-
: tantruming Labrador on the ear to get her attention.
:
: It had fuck-all to do with leash training though, and
: everything to do with getting through to an incredibly
: hard-headed, tough-minded, and spoiled-rotten dog
: that A. she was NOT going to physically control me
: the way she had every other female human she'd dealt
: with and B. that I was worth paying attention to.
:
: It came up in a discussion where someone else
: mentioned having nipped a terrier puppy who
: wouldn't stop play-biting. In both cases, it was a
: one-time instinctive response to an unusual situation.

--------------------

: sinofabitch writes:
: > >> What I have said- repeatedly - is that he
: > >> took posts from two different people,
: > >> took pieces of them out of context,
: > >> cobbled them together,
: > >> then added his own words:
:
: "Neatly," and "Smartly."
:
: > >> and a fake signature.
:
: "sinofabitch" instead of sionnach.
:
: > >> Which is exactly what he did.
: > >> The actual quote is misleading
: > >> when taken out of context, and Jerry's
: > >> faked "quote" is downright meaningless.

: > > Here's Jerry's version

: > > "I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
: > > Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
: > > Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
: > > Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
: > > Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
: > > Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
: > > Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.

: > > Here's yours;

: > > "I dropped the leash, threw my
: > > right arm over the Lab's shoulder,
: > > grabbed her opposite foot with my
: > > left hand, rolled her on her side,
: > > leaned on her, said "GRRRR!" and
: > > nipped her ear.
: > > --Sara Sionnach

BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!

See?
Even if you did do the work, that is an issue
you would bring up before or after the class.
That so? paulie's last class ended SUDDENLY
with a EMERGENCY trip to the vet that paulie
was generHOWES enough to PAY FOR <{}: ~ ( >
Step out of the class and wait if you feel that uncomfortable.
INDEED? You mean, JUST LIKE HOWE YOU DONE??
But be an adult. You are lucky that Muttley is a
fairly laid back calm dog. He saves your butt an
awful lot...
That so? You mean DESPITE bein a VICTIM of
ABUSE JUST LIKE HOWE *your own dogs are*:

From: wren <***@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008
pm
Subject: Re: Marley and Me...
Am I the only one who found the book NOT heartwarming?
(I have NOT seen the movie yet but I read the book recently
and Yes I did cry at the end I'm NOT heartless)
I found it a tale of a bad dog owner who allowed his
badly behaved dog continue to be badly behaved.
newfondly yours,
Nessa
----
Hannah age 6.5 Pitador rescued age 9 weeks
Harley small shaggy cow that pretends he's a
newfoundland rescued age 10 months
(Angel) Bagel went to Rainbow Bridge 9/18/08
my Newfandstuff age 8.5
I agree that they were pretty horrible dog owners all around.

And misguided.

They did go to obedience classes.

The first go around was not too helpful - being advised
not to continue classes because the dog was unruly!

They did consult with the vet on the storm phobias.

They got advice from other dog owners on training
Marley not to jump up (poor advise, but they weren't knowledgeable to judge
that).
He pretty much admits to all he did wrong. And all
he learned. About backyard breeders. About different
types within a breed. Etc etc.

Marley obviously was not an easy dog. Probably
wouldn't have been easy for even an experienced
owner (although he certainly would have
turned out more civilized).

I admire that they did keep Marley. It would have
been awful easy to dump him. When the storm
phobias became apparent.


When the baby was born. When the wife was on
bedrest (much more difficult than it sounds) or when
she had ppd. When they moved. But they did not.

From the sounds of it, he was a very included member
of the family.

He wasn't put out in the backyard and forgotten.

The choke chain stories make me cringe.

But that is what was taught at that time.

That's what we learned at our obedience classes
with our old dog (RIP : ( ). We were told to give
him a short sharp jerk, hard enough that he would
look at us. Well, he never looked, but once he did
growl ("enough! I heard you already!").

I wouldn't do that again.
Each one of us has different ideas on what makes
an acceptable pet.


My own dog has a horrible heel. Embarrassingly horrible.

He bites the lead.


I know better. I just have not put the time into it.

He knows off, leave it, watch out, and some other commands.

He is trustworthy with my small kids. That is my priority.

Better obedience, well, we'll get there.

I guess, overall, I think Marley was well loved, and
his owner learned from his mistakes, which we all make.

The book does focus on the worst of what went on
because that makes a better story than all the days
of peaceful contentment.


Not everyone has a Tuck to write about. :)

Although those stories I can read without cringing!

Long time lurker (who can only post through Google
due to lack of computer skills. Gack. Sorry.)

===================

O.K, dirtbag; ALL temperament and behavior problems
ARE CAUSED BY MISHANDLING JUST LIKE HOWE
YOU PREFER <{}: ~ ( >
Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
2009-03-21 19:09:13 UTC
Permalink
HOWEDY luke a.k.a. wren, you pathetic miserable
stinkin rotten lyin punk thug coward active acute
chronic life-long INCURABLE Malignant MaliciHOWES
MENTAL CASE,

"Luke" <Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.> wrote
From: wren <***@yahoo.com>

ONLY PARENTS FEAR an HATE The Simply Amazing
Puppy Wizard even more than the professional dog trainers
and university trained behaviorists HE'S IDENTIFIED,
EXXXPOSED an DISCREDITED as LIARS, DOG ABUSERS,
COWARDS an MENTAL PATIENTS by QUOTING
their own POSTED CASE HISTORIES <{}: ~ ( >
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
The choke chain stories make me cringe.
INDEED?

You mean, DESPITE havin been ADVISED NOT TO CRINGE?

LIKE THIS:

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "CourteHOWES Canine."

"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?

When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first
time, spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth
and walk away. The dog won't be too thrilled with
this but just ignore him and continue your normal behavior."
--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"CourteHOWES Canines"

--------------------------------

"Seem" you got a PROBLEM for follHOWEIN INSTRUCTIONS?
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
But that is what was taught at that time.
ONLY BY DOG ABUSIN MENTAL CASES like we
got postin RIGHT HERE, wren a.k.a. luke <{}: ~ ( >
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
That's what we learned at our obedience classes
with our old dog (RIP : ( ).
Naaaah?
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
We were told to give him a short sharp jerk,
hard enough that he would look at us.
Ahhh, JUST LIKE HOWE your fellHOWE PUNK
THUG COWARD LYIN ANIMAL MURDERIN
MENTAL CASE PALS PREFER??
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
Well, he never looked, but once he did
growl ("enough! I heard you already!").
INDEED? An you think THAT was on accHOWENTA
he RESPECTED your G-D Like AUTHORITY??

LIKE THIS:

Borrowed from: "Puppy Raising Tips" from
professional trainers, John and Amy Dahl.

"Around four months many puppies can withstand a
correction. Unfortunately this is the time they start
teething and if their mouth hurts, they may act
generally sensitive. If this is the case, be patient and
wait for all those baby teeth to fall out.

In training, retrievers often respond to physical correction
better than verbal correction. While "NO!" is extremely
useful if puppy is about to bite an electrical cord or steal
food off the table, when you are teaching them something
(like obedience) a sharp jerk on their lead or swat with a
stick gets the message across with less emotion and less
effect on their confidence.

If they drop the dummy and act like their mouth hurts
when they are teething, stop all retrieving and wait for
their mouth to feel better. A correction should be just
severe enough to get the dog to respond.

Repeated weak corrections are very stressful to the dog."

----------------------------
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
[]
They just aren't my thing. I DO like working with
soft dogs. And I guess I've never met a soft Lab.
They remind me of lumber wagons.
Well, there are many such Labs, but they probably
weren't field-bred.
IME there are lots of soft Labs, and some of the recent
field-bred dogs are among the worst. In the 60's, when
you worked with them, if I understand correctly, they
were probably more consistently tough and resilient.

That's the traditional nature of the breed.

Trainer Mike Lardy thinks we are getting the softer,
more sensitive dogs today because training methods
using modern e-collars are so much better and more
gentle than they used to be, it doesn't take a tough
dog to come through training in good shape. I think
it's a plausible argument.

Doesn't fit the stereotype the ignorant have of e-collars.

We still get a few that are happy and eager no
matter what we do to them.

Amy Dahl

----------------------

SEE??

"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A Dog
I Do Not Believe There Is A Single Circumstance
Ever, Where Slapping A Dog Is Anything But
Destructive," "I don't see why anyone would want
to choke or beat a dog, or how any trainer could
possibly get a good working dog by making them
unhapper, fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying
frosty dahl.

------------------

lying frosty dahl sez she doesn't twist:
"None of my posts, prior to or subsequent to
Jerry Howe's attacks, encourage anyone to
twist ears, beat dogs, confront, intimidate,
frighten, or any of the crap he constantly
attributes to me," lying frosty dahl.

LIKE THIS:

lying frosty dahl, oakhill kennels wrote:
Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper wield
the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them
more sharply

Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and
the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist!
Eventually, the dog will give in

but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their
efforts to escaping the ear pinch
You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell
instead of your thumb even get a studded collar
and pinch the ear against that

Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so
urgent that resisting your will fades in importance.

CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever Ready
Right Hand, As it catches on, try using the stick
and no ear pinch.

When the dog is digging out to beat the stick
and seems totally reliable without any ear pinch,
you are finished

If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin,
say "No! Hold!"

(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps because
the ear is getting tender, or the dog has decided
it isn't worth it)" lying frosty dahl.

"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap,"
professora gingold.

terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context, because you
are full of bizarro manure."

"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.

------------------

SEE?
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
I wouldn't do that again.
That so? HOWE then, would you TRAIN your own
dog NOT TO PULL on leash? YOU CAN'T, accordin
to YOUR OWN POSTED CASE HISTORY.

Dogs PULL ON LEASH to ESCAPE BEIN JERKED
an CHOKED like HOWE your dog was TELLIN YOU
HE UNDERSTOOD and that he'd ATTACK YOU if
you JERKED an CHOKED him somemore <{}: ~ ( >

Perhaps you should try a head halter or chokin harness
so you can flip IT assoverbucket if he OBJECTS to you
TRAININ him, eh, wren a.k.a. luke, you pathetic piece
of lyin animal an child abusin crap??
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
Each one of us has different ideas on what
makes an acceptable pet.
That so?
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
My own dog has a horrible heel. Embarrassingly horrible.
NHOWE YOU KNOW HOWE COME <{}: ~ ( >
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
He bites the lead.
Dogs bite their leads to ESCAPE BEIN JERKED
an CHOKED by a MENTAL PATIENT <{}: ~ ( >
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
I know better.
DO TELL??
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
I just have not put the time into it.
ANY dog CAN BE TRAINED to heel in just a couple
of minutes simply by DOIN EVERY THING EXXXACTLY
PRECISELY OPPOSITE of HOWE you PATHETIC
MISERABLE STINKIN ROTTEN LYIN ANIMAL
MURDERIN CHILD ABUSIN MENTAL PATIENTS
PREFER <{}: ~ ( >

LIKE THIS:

"Greg M. Silverman" <***@no.umn.edu> wrote in message

Hey, Mr. Wizard, or Alchemist or whatever your alias
of the day is, have to say that our dog heels much
better than she did.

This is after reading and implementing the
bit in your "Wits End" treatise.

And she's a royal nutter (but then again,
aren't they all?).

Cheers! Greg--

--------------------

SEE??

AND LIKE THIS:

"Hennie van Dalen" <h.vandalen11******@chello.nl>
wrote in message news:TlsCb.2895$***@amstwist00...

RTFM is age-old computer lingo.... It stands for "Read The
F***ing Manual" ;-) I used the manual and it works very good!

But it is a long text to read (76 pages printed on A4-size
paper)

My lab is 1year old now, and teaching him something
new takes about 30minutes (depending on what to teach offcourse)

My other dog (a 7year old staffordshire terrier-mix) is a bit
slower in learning, but he is used to me calling him a "bad
dog"whenever he did something i didn't want him to do, or
it might be the age.

Sometimes it looks like Sam (the lab) WANTS to learn
something new: he wants me to bring along the can
filled with washers whenever we go for a walk. It is a
very "humane" way of teaching: the dog is allways a
"good dog", and never a "bad dog"

There is nu punishment or prong-collars involved.

For a fact i tought him to heel in 15min's without
beeing on a leach at-all !!!

When he spotted a dog, he used to run towards
it, but now i tought him to "ask permission" first,
and to my surprise it worked!

My dogs never went to puppy-training
(lucky for them), maybe this helped too.

Manual can be found at http://www.doggydoright.com/id3.html
-- Hennie van Dalen www.chello.nl/~h.vandalen11
www.chello.nl/~h.vandalen11/fotografie/doggy-pictures/

--------------

SEE?
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
Jerry believes he's a dog trainer.
Fortunately, I happen to believe he is too.
I took a rescued three year old beagle that
had been kept outside all of its life that didn't
even recognize or respond to its name to
Jerry's home (That ugly cinder block shack???

get real) and in just over one hour of working
with the dog, he was coming on command
(not a quickly as he does now, but still...) and
walking with us on a loose lead.

His "hot/cold" exercise and "come when called"
command and pack exercise WORK!
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
and in all likelihood he's never even been near a dog.
Well, he's been near mine, and done wonders for him.

You don't have to like him. You don't have
to agree with his methods, but as far as I
am concerned, I've never seen any other
training approach that was as fast and easy.

<<<< Rest of original post deleted >>>>

Ron Flanagan
Orlando, Florida

-----------------------

SEE?

AND LIKE THIS:

"***@DCFWatch.com" wrote:

No, the dog learned that I would hold still the second she
began to pull. She would pull to go where *she* wanted.
Well if she wanted to stop and go in another direction...
say to sniff my neighbors yard.. she learned if she wanted
to do it I would stop walking and she could go.. and if there
wasn't enough slack on her lead she would just pull me.

Then when she got done doing *her* thing, she woudl heel..
smile at me and wait for me to say "let's go" and finish *my*
thing.

I would refuse to move .. i looked like an idiot.. freezing
mid walk for minutes waiting for *my* dog to heel and give
*me* permission to go again.

I did the treats and the let's go... she got to do her
stuff and get a cookie.. if she even wanted the cookie.
I wound up calling Jerry.. as I have a half red nose pit
and half amstaff.. who is incredibly protective.. we had
a new pup on the way.. and i needed help..

i followed petsmarts trainnign guides.. memorized them...
and they *did* work, don't get me wrong.. but only when my
pet wanted a cookie or felt the cookie was better than what
she wanted.. which was not often.

She quickly learned to ignore my commands if she could see
my hands were empty. So I called Jerry... he chatted me
for about an hour and a half.. gave me his link... and even
when i had probs intro'ing the pup he called me withn i5 mins
of my email for help at 10pm on a sunday night.

One.. singular.. uno family pack exercise after the hot
and cold exercise and i could zig zag down my street..
about face .. whatever.. and never had tension.

two men were acrossed the street and she walked right
by them... ordinarily she'd snarl and protect us.

And in two days.. my dog.. who bit the puppy if he even
looked like he was going near my husband or kids.. is
nursing him every hour.. cleaning him.. rough housing
gently.. and teaching him to go potty outside.. actually
watches him to make sure he doesn't go in the house...
and has milk.. which is awesome since she's 19 months old
and has never had a litter.

She also has stopped barking non stop at our neighbor's
dogs and pig.. does not bark at eveyr car that drives by
and has stopped jumping on people. she's even starting
to ignore our cat who has lived on her dome litter box
and our window sill (literally) for over a year and a half.

She also does her commands on cue..
and doesn't look for a treat.

Amanda.

------------------

SEE?

AND LIKE THIS:

"Paul B" <***@microsoft.com> wrote in message news:***@clear.net.nz...

When I trained both my dogs to "heel" or walk close
to me I ended up going to the parks and teaching
them without a lead at all, that ensured I had to use
good communication and was unable to be tempted
to use the lead to correct them.

Another part of the training I agree with is not using
the "policeman" approach, where you tell a dog "no"
or react with it in such a way that you become involved
in the behaviour (by trying to stop it), this approach
often results in a dog ceasing the behaviour when you
are about but doing it when you aren't (bin raiding,
counter surfing etc).

Basically you are taught to make your dog a good
friend who likes and wants to work for you for the
pleasure of working for you (setting the hierarchy
is included in this), teach it to recall reliably,
then to do everything else (sit, stay down etc etc).

Unwanted behaviours are addressed as they occur.
If you understand what you are trying to achieve and
are prepared to work with it you can get great results.

Paul

-----------------------

SEE?

AND LIKE THIS:

Subject: Re: Dog will not listen to anyone but me!
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 11:33:36 -0500
Message-ID: ***@corp.supernews.com

Okay, I gotta speak up here... We've been using
Jerry's methods with our dog. We had the same
problem as the original poster has with Buzz.

One day working with the family pack exercise
and practicing the recall command with the family
and she'll now go out with hubby and daughter
instead of needing me to reassure her or even
refusing to go with anyone but me.

I really urge you, regardless of the negative
things you might hear about Jerry & Wits'
End here, to try the method and *judge the
results for yourself*.

Let's see what other areas she's improved in...
always comes when called, not chewing stuff
even if we leave it laying around, "re" housebroken
after long shelter stay, walks perfectly on leash,
doesn't try to steal food from our plates or beg...
probably a few more things I'm forgetting to mention.
*(Yeah, the kats lay off the koi and don't wander. jh).
That's in about a week's time.

Her overall demeanor has changed.

When we brought her home she was very untrusting
and ultra-submissive (except with her area/toys
where she was possessive and nippy).

She had been abused and beaten by previous
owners, then she was in a shelter for months.

They (most of them) wanted to give up and kill
her. Now she's gained confidenceand trust with
us.

Last night was another big breakthrough
(in my eyes). She barked! Big deal, she
barked just once when she heard the front
door. Great!

Anyway, you'll be told lots of nasty stuff about
Jerry or that the Wits' End manual is culled
from other sources. In my opinion, even if it
is, it takes only the good stuff and leaves
out the bad.

Works for me.

(And I suppose I gotta say this... I don't know
Jerry personally. I've emailed him and instant
messaged him. I have not bought a "Doggy
Do Right". He's offered help for free.)

M.
--
Ms. Mick Owen Crneckiy
http://www.crneckiy.com & http://tarot.crneckiy.com
E-mail & MSN Messenger: ***@crneckiy.com
AIM & Yahoo!: MickCrneckiy ~ ICQ: 72461227

--------------------

SEE?

AND THAT'S HOWE COME
you and your MENTAL CASE DOG ABUSIN
COWARD PALS CAN'T POST YOUR LIES
IDIOCY INSANITY AND ABUSE HERE
abHOWETS nodoGdameneD more <{}: ~ ) >

SEE? SEE?? SEE???
|
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
He knows off, leave it, watch out, and some other commands.
INDEED?
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
He is trustworthy with my small kids. That is my priority.
But of curse~!
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
Better obedience, well, we'll get there.
INDEED? HOWE??
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
I guess, overall, I think Marley was well loved, and
his owner learned from his mistakes, which we all make.
But of curse~!

Hey? DIRTBAG??

MY STUDENTS DON'T MAKE THOSE
INSANE ABUSIVE "MISTAKES" <{}: ~ ( >

ONLY DOG AN CHILD ABUSERS HURT AND INTIMIDATE.
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
The book does focus on the worst of what went on
because that makes a better story than all the days
of peaceful contentment.
INDEED?
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
Not everyone has a Tuck to write about. :)
I'm fortunate to have such a RICH HISTORY of
LIES IDIOCY INSANITY ABUSE an MURDER
from diddler and her DEATHLY ILL NEUROTIC
HYPERACTIVE HOWETA CON-TROLL dogs <{}': ~ ) >

LIKE THIS:


diddlers' IDIOT son's dog:



"diddy" <***@nospam.diddy.net> wrote in message


Subject: Re: The kind of mess uneducated
breeders are making

No idea what he is. He's supposed to be part
chow, but he looks more aussie/duck tolling
retriever to me than anything with a pomeranian
tail.


His facial animations are hilarious, you can see
the wheels turning, and he's very engaging.


The down side is, a kid from next door came over
and pulled his ears, and he bit the kid on the face
resulting in a $300,000 plastic surgery.


I have a zero tolerance for dog bites, and
would normally put a dog that did that down,
but this dog was the victim here.


----------------


SEE???

Subject: Re: untrainable beagle! NEED HELP
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
i have a ten year old beagle who i got from the
animal shelter 5 years ago. its pretty clear he
was abused in some form before he ended up
in the shelter; when ever i reach for something,
like the tv remote, too quickly he flinches.
he gets scared when i sweep the
kitchen floor and hides under the bed.
I have one too. I don't know her past history, or her age.

I use an antibark collar on her for my sanity. She's very
quiet, until I take it off. It doesn't train her not to bark,
because she barks when the collar is off. (beagles "Do
that")


There may not even be batteries in it, but she doesn't
bark... just in case.I'd supervise the first time you try
it, because I've heard of some dogs barking, and going
so spazzy over them that they died.


I really don't think you are going to train a dog that
age, especially a beagle, NOT to bark. I see your
options as being:


1) anti-bark collar
a)citronella
b)electronic
c)bark buster (your neighbors will
probably complain asmuch about
that as the howlng)
2) surgical debarking
3) placing the dog and accepting the consequences
4) moving


-----------------------

SEE???
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
The shock is minimal and nothing to worry about. There
are 2 different types that frequent this group: the high
falutin city folk that believe dogs should be treated like
children, and the answer for any problem is "enroll them
in class and spend $300 to teach them not to do it, and
put them in time-out, but be sure their paw socks are on
before stepping outside if under 50 degrees, etc."
First, I know of a dog with an antibark collar,
who protested so violently, he spazzed out
and killed himself.

He was found dead in his kennel the next morning.


What dog training schools charge $300?


--------------------

SEE???


diddler wrote:


"I released a dog from the pound.

She was dumped for biting.


Knowing that most of the time, a dog that bites
is the child's fault, I brought her home to see if
she was salvageable in a childless home.


She at least deserved an evaluation. She
seemed fine, then the following day, with
no provocation, she lunged for my throat.


This was an unprovoked attack, and I knew
there was probably something physically
wrong with the dog (perhaps a brain tumor?)
and regardless, she was a HUGE liability risk,
and I could never place her.


So I took her to the vet for euthanasia.


The vet kept sticking her for 15 minutes, and
it was the ugliest screaming death I ever witnessed....
until I had my old 18 year old companion diagnosed
with systemic organ failure. Her old body wore out. I
took her to the vet.


Apparently poor circulation caused her not to
use the euthanasia shot properly. The vet kept
giving her one shot after another, and she dies
a slow agonizing death, screaming, and looking
at me in betrayal and dismay.


I wanted to grab her from the vet, and take her
home, and shoot her. It would have been over
faster," DIDDLER, lyin animal murderin COWARD
and MENTAL CASE.

===================

SEE???

BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
Although those stories I can read without cringing!
THAT SO?

ALL temperament and behavior problems
ARE CAUSED BY MISHANDLING JUST
LIKE HOWE YOU PREFER <{}: ~ ( >
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
Long time lurker (who can only post through Google
due to lack of computer skills.
Hmmm...
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
Gack. Sorry.)
INDEED <{}: ~ ( >

Here's a few of diddler's STORIES you won't CRINGE
over NHOWE that you know it's NORMAL TO WANT TO:

From: DelusionalDimensionsRecoveryDDR
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007
Subject: Re: And then there were......

HOWEDY diddler you pathetic miserable stinkin lyin
animal murderin punk thug coward active acute chronic
life long incurable malignant mental case and backyard
PUPPY MILLER / professional dog trainin FRAUD an
SCAM ARTIST,
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
I was prepared a few hours ago to post there were now only
two dogs. But after a trip to the Dayton Emergency clinic,
we are now only $200 poorer and brought home a very torb'ed
up beagle.
Looks like you're havin a other run of BAD LUCK
TRYIN to train your dogs, eh, diddler <{}: ~ ( >

Date: December 29, 2006
Subject: Re: Dog chewing up floors
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
I, for one, am glad that the Puppy Wizard comes across
as a complete loon given what his advice is since it
makes it less likely that people will take it instead
of the advice of someone else I think gives better advice.
For the record, The Puppy wizard over-rates himself. But
"his" (tm) methods are pretty much tried and true methods
that trainers have used and some still use today.

There are better methods out there now. But the ones posted
in his manual (now that he has removed the advice to SPIKE
a dog's temperature to dangerous levels) are sound. they work..
no matter what we think of the puppy-wizard and his packaging...

"his methods" <cough> are just as valid as anyone else's
"His methods" can stand some updating, and he definitely
needs to look at some repackaging.

Hopefully others add a slicker delivery to grab attention,
but truthfully, when you look at the cat fights that go on
here, and stand back and watch in perspective, it's rather
hard to determine the sane ones from the lunatics.

In fact, an awful lot of people here come off looking
rather tainted. A person needs to have a good filtering
device to sort out the noise.

TPW just has a problem that's too painfully obvious.

--------------------

BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
We estimate the beagle to be about 14.
This is the same Beagle you couldn't train and
still can't, diddler?:

diddler the shit stain smeared on the walls
with her finger dipped in bloody poop:

"I would not allow that behavior AT ALL. Inconsistancies
are going to come back and bite you. I don't understand
how, you as a trainer, don't comprehend this.

Having a 100% reliable dog does not
EVER allow for mitigated circumstances.

A well-trained dog is a lifestyle.

You teach a dog to LEAVE it. A dog should be
taught to obey. I can call any of my dogs off
in full chase and ask them to drop anything
they are doing, and they will.

I think that should be expected of any breed, and
those who do not teach "leave it" fundementals
atre missing the boat"

"Cappy the beagle killed one of my ducklings today.
I certainly was NOT going to keep him, Nor was I
going to throw him away.

I was going to go the distance and get him back
home (we fixed some other problems while he
was here) He's now a happy and great dog,
although I wasn't so fond of him when he first
came, and although we grew close, the whole
experience was not among my fondest memories,
until the end.

I needed to redirect his energies.

He used escape for entertainment. Once I gave
him very many jobs to do, and taught him LOTS
of positive job skills to redirect his energies.

Once he found positive alternatives, he finally
forgot his negative behaviors which were severely
entrenched by the time I got him.

The first 6 months were awful for both of us.

diddy wrote:

I think 4 hours or so, I had put him in a supposedly
"Secure" place, while I had to leave.

When I got home,he had trashed my house.

From then on, when I left, he got put in the horse stall.

He trashed my horse stall.

He then got a new horse stall, wore a E-collar,
I electrified the perimeter of the stall and we
were finally able to contain him while we worked
on his escape problems.

Once he learned that I was more determined to
defeat him, he finally subdued. But escaping, to
him was a game.

Both of us had a throughly miserable time during
the stand off. The dog is actually now a very good
citizen. He just had to meet someone more determined,
and stubborn and willing to go the distance to do what it
took, before he would stop.

Like I said, I thought he and I were going
to grow old together.

I am not going to go into exactly where we
went before we got that accomplished.

Let's just say it was "ugly"

---------------------------

I KNHOWE YOU DIDN'T CRINGE YET, wren a.k.a. luke...

Subject: Re: untrainable beagle! NEED HELP
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
i have a ten year old beagle who i got from the animal
shelter 5 years ago. its pretty clear he was abused in
some form before he ended up in the shelter; when ever
i reach for something, like the tv remote, too quickly he
flinches. he gets scared when i sweep the kitchen floor
and hides under the bed.
I have one too. I don't know her past history,or her age.

I use an antibark collar on her for my sanity.

She's very quiet, until I take it off.

It doesn't train her not to bark, because she
barks when the collar is off. (beagles "Do that")

There may not even be batteries in it, but she
doesn't bark... just in case.

I'd supervise the first time you try it, because
I've heard of some dogs barking, and going
so spazzy over them that they died.

I really don't think you are going to train a dog
that age, especially a beagle, NOT to bark.

I seeyour options as being:

1) anti-bark collar a)citronella b)electronic
c)bark buster (your neighbors will probably
complain as much about that as the howlng)

2) surgical debarking 3) placing the dog and
accepting the consequences

4) moving

------------------------

BWEEEEAAAHAHAHAAAA~!~!~!
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
This morning she had severe abdominal distress. Pacing,
whining, and crippling spasm, accompanied with the most
pitiful moans and groans you ever heard.
Oh? Oh, you mean JUST LIKE Danny and Tuck and Reeka had
when they swallowed CRAP they wasn't suppHOWESED to get?

Here's diddler's SUCCESS trainin her own dog not to
bark whine an cry all night:

diddy (***@nospam.diddy.net)
Subject: Oh My God
Date: 2002-01-16

Two nights ago, Reka started acting frantic about 11pm.

I let her out. It's coyote breeding season, and she is
fascinated by them. I assumed she wanted to go out and
listen to them howling. I brought her in, and she spent
the night franticly and desperately demanding to go out.
After about 4am, I finally put her in the barn, locked
securely in a horse stall for the night.

She came in by morning, and had a normal active, playful
day. Last night, at 11pm, She franticly DEMANDED to go
out. I let her out, and brought her in.

At midnight, she DEMANDED to be let out.
I let her out, but I went out to the barn and got
a crate, and decided she could spend the rest
of the night in the crate.

We were NOT going to do a repeat of the previous
night AGAIN.

At 3am, she whined so loudly, I then decided not to
allow her to set a precedence of this type of behavior.
So I took her crate out to the heated gun shop and
decided to let her act out her bad behavior in peace,
and send a message that her obnoxious behavior
was not going to be tolerated.

This morning at 6am, I went out, and she had vomited
(normal looking dog food) and defecated in her crate
(not normal for Reka, but then, She normally didn't
sleep in a crate, NEVER gets corrected (she never does
anything to GET corrected for) and was probably nerves
from the outside experience, plus reprimand and solitary
confinement.)

I let her in the house while I cleaned the cage. Hoping
I had made my point. She acted healthy and normal, and
playful and chipper.

But then I noticed a spot of blood on the bathroom
linoleum and in the bathtub. I was the last to take a
bath, so I knew REKA was the last in the tub.

That blood didnt come from me, so it HAD to come from
Reka. Thinking about her nearing the end of her heat cycle,
I still didnt think a lot about it. I thought her obnoxious
behavior the past couple nights WAS her heat cycle..
and corresponding coyote breeding season.

Then while feeding her breakfast, I saw the whole story.
She had blood (fresh) streaming from her RECTUM.

UhOh.

I had her at the vets office this morning before he
opened. He just said her intestines were all bunched
up with huge air pockets.

Was there any chance that she ate strings of carpets? I
said, last Thursday we took a plastic tarp out of the yard
that we had over the grill to protect it from the weather
because she was chewing it. That would explain
EVERYTHING.

The strings are binding and bunching up her intestines,
cutting her internally and tying her intestines in knots as
it works its way through.

Reka is in a very critical situation. She is going to
require extensive and expensive surgery that I cant
afford. I will manage.

Even with the surgery, her condition will be critical
for awhile. Scary thoughts. I would never have
treated her the way I did last night, if I had even a
clue that she was sick. I feel so badly.

diddy

----------------

BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!

Hey ignorameHOWES? You CRINGIN YET??
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
My husband said, if it's serious (LOOK HERE.. ANY PAIN
OF THAT MAGNITUDE IS SERIOUS!) we weren't going
to fix it, we would simply put her down.
That'd be KINDLY of you and DH, eh, diddler?

Hey diddler?

Remember that time you MURDERED your own DEAD DOG
Danny and the PTS solution DIDN'T WORK and he screamed
just like HOWE he done when he first got deathly ill from eatin
CRAP he couldn't eat, and your other DEAD DOG who got run
DHOWEN in front of your HOWES when your IDIOT IMBECILE
son left the gate open and you shot IT in the middle of the street, diddler?
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
But she got out yesterday,
What happened? Did your RETARDED son leave
the gate open again?

LUCKY THING she didn't get run over like them
other two dead dogs you let get run DHOWEN in
front of your HOWES.

LUCKY THING you've since trained your dogs not
to cross a road even when they ESCAPE your SHOCK
FENCE and take off for a week or so?

BWEEEAAAHAHAAA~!~!~!
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
and indulged in a buffet of horse meadow muffins.
Perhaps you should post signs with a picture of a horse pile
with a dog standin over it and a red line through it? You
could make it a PROJECT to keep your idiot son occupied
so IT don't leave the gate open an let your other DEATH
DEFYING dogs get run DHOWEN <{}: ~ ) >

"diddy" <***@nospam.diddy.net> wrote in message
News:***@216.196.97.142...

My dogs aren't into beer that much.
But they sure love Horse poop!

-------------------

LUCKY THING you can just train a "LEAVE IT"
command, eh, diddler?:

diddler the shit stain smeared on the walls
with her finger dipped in bloody poop:

"I would not allow that behavior AT ALL. Inconsistancies
are going to come back and bite you. I don't understand
how, you as a trainer, don't comprehend this.

Having a 100% reliable dog does not
EVER allow for mitigated circumstances.

A well-trained dog is a lifestyle.

You teach a dog to LEAVE it.

A dog should be taught to obey.

I can call any of my dogs off in full chase
and ask them to drop anything they are
doing, and they will.

I think that should be expected of any breed, and
those who do not teach "leave it" fundementals
atre missing the boat"

------------------------------

BWEEEEAAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
She may be impacted, and it might pass.
INDEEDY!

OtherWIZE she'll end up SHITTIN BLOOD into your
electrified horse stall where you lock your dogs so's to
not hear them bark whine an cry when they're DYIN
from swallowin STUFF you've TRAINED THEM not
to eat, eh, diddler? Like your veterinarians' office kitty:

.DIDDY ON CATS (shoot, don't trap)
From: diddy
(***@nospam.diddy.net)
Subject: Re: What would you do in this situation?
Date: 2002-05-31 14:49:22 PST

Actually, I borrowed the vets office kitten once for a
couple days for school education on pet care and safe
handling as well as responsible pet ownership.

I kept the kitten over night in a crate within a crate
and yet my dog (yes, Angelic Danny, as well as Taya
and Toby tore that kittne to threads from between the
crate bars. (apparently he stuck his paws through the
crate to bat at the dogs. I was out doing yard work
and rushed in to find the little kittens pieces and
parts being torn through by ALL the dogs.

I called my girl friend to come get my dogs. I screamed
displeasure, and stalked out with the kitten. Danny, et
al spent 3 days in a kennel until I finally felt like I
could interact with them without doing bodily harm. All
three dogs were never touched, but knew they had done
something so unspeakable that I wouldn't associate with
them and they got banished.

To this day, Taya (mom and Dad's dog) and Danny
will not look at a cat. When confronted with one,
Danny wees himself and cowers hiding behind me
for help.

I'm not saying this would work this way with all dogs,
But mom and dad now have a house cat, and she has
never been harmed by any of the dogs. Danny is there
all the time, unsupervised, and has no interest in harming
the cat.

----------------------

LUCKY THING you can just train a "LEAVE IT"
command, eh, diddler?:

diddler the shit stain smeared on the walls
with her finger dipped in bloody poop:

"I would not allow that behavior AT ALL.

Inconsistancies are going to come back and bite you.

I don't understand how, you as a trainer, don't
comprehend this.

Having a 100% reliable dog does not
EVER allow for mitigated circumstances.

A well-trained dog is a lifestyle.

You teach a dog to LEAVE it. A dog should be
taught to obey. I can call any of my dogs off
in full chase and ask them to drop anything
they are doing, and they will.

I think that should be expected of any breed, and
those who do not teach "leave it" fundementals
atre missing the boat"

---------------------------

BWEEEEAAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
I told him she's in pain, and transient or not, we have to
do something about the pain while we wait to see if the
issue resolves or not.
You coulda just BLUDGEONED IT like HOWE
you do kats you snare in your leg hold / strangle
noose traps, diddler <{}: ~ ) >

Here's diddler hurting and murderin
innocent critters for FUN and PROFIT:

From: diddy (***@nospam.diddy.net) Subject: Re:
cats : Crating/Caging: What constitutes abuse?
Date: 2002-08-23

Regarding this cat in the snare. It went nuts.

It leaped, and tangled itself, and most certainly
strangulated it's intestines.

It had the snare pulled tight down to the diameter
of a dime (just large enough to encircle the spine)
around the waist area.

This cats snarled, and attacked.

Trying to extricate this cat was exceedingly difficult,
not to mention dangerous. Because I feared damage
to the intestines and death of the gut, I imagined
this cat was not likely to survive.

It would have been much simpler to dispatch the
unfortunate cat and take out the dead body. Instead,
this cat wore a collar. it deserved a chance, and
the owner deserved closure. (no id on the collar) .

It escaped, just as I released it and it couldn't be
taken to the vet for examination. I will probably
never know if this particular cat survives the
experience or not.

People in the area were aware that trapping was
being done and apparently still let their cats run
free, both endangered by the traps and by the
coyotes being targeted that are causing a problem
with their cat population.

Had that cat not been wearing a collar, I would not
have tried to release this hostile cat. Releasing it
may not have been a kindness, but then... cats
weren't supposed to be attracted to this type of
trap, in this position, and then they weren't
supposed to go ape, to get themselves in this
situation.

If you like your pet, you keep them home.

--------------------------------

LUCKY THING you can just train a "LEAVE IT"
command, eh, diddler?:

diddler the shit stain smeared on the walls
with her finger dipped in bloody poop:

"I would not allow that behavior AT ALL.

Inconsistancies are going to come back and bite
you. I don't understand how, you as a trainer,
don't comprehend this.

Having a 100% reliable dog does not
EVER allow for mitigated circumstances.

A well-trained dog is a lifestyle.

You teach a dog to LEAVE it. A dog should be
taught to obey. I can call any of my dogs off
in full chase and ask them to drop anything
they are doing, and they will.

I think that should be expected of any breed, and
those who do not teach "leave it" fundementals
atre missing the boat"

--------------------------

BWEEEEAAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
So the vet said, if you aren't fixing it. Let's juice her
up on Torbugesic, healthy doses of antibiotics, with
reglan to move things along.
That was kindly of him.
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
We just treated everything.
Yeah. AGAIN.
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
So if there is improvement, we will assume fixable. If
not.. I will write that "And then there were two" post.
That's kindly of you for keepin us INFORMED.
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
to be continued.....
And THEN, through the MAGICK of INSANITY, SELF
AGGRANDIZEMENT, LIES and diddler's own POSTED
CASE HISTORY indellibly archived in The Sincerely
Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy,
Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog, Child, Pussy, Goat, Ferret,
Monkey, SpHOWES, And Horsey Training Method Manual
Forums And Human And Animal Behavior Forensic Sciences
Research Laboratory Archives,

"Cappy the beagle killed one of my ducklings today.

Tuck grabbed a leg, and swallowed a leg and thigh
before I could get him.

a month ago, he almost died from swallowing a
chicken wing. Now I'm sweating all over again.
I think he's never going to be allowed out ever
again without a muzzle! (he seems alright thus far.

-------------------------


BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!

LUCKY THING you can just train a "LEAVE IT"
command, eh, diddler?:

diddler the shit stain smeared on the walls
with her finger dipped in bloody poop:

"I would not allow that behavior AT ALL.

Inconsistancies are going to come back and bite
you. I don't understand how, you as a trainer,
don't comprehend this.

Having a 100% reliable dog does not
EVER allow for mitigated circumstances.

A well-trained dog is a lifestyle.

You teach a dog to LEAVE it. A dog should be
taught to obey. I can call any of my dogs off
in full chase and ask them to drop anything
they are doing, and they will.

I think that should be expected of any breed, and
those who do not teach "leave it" fundementals
atre missing the boat"

--------------------------

BWEEEEAAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!

Re: Tuck's SAR experience
"diddy" <***@nospam.diddy.net> wrote in message news:***@216.196.97.142...

I just came in from putting chickens to bed, and Tuck
had my computer keyboard on the floor, and there are
now two keys missing.

Ornery git

-------------

BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!

LUCKY THING you can just train a "LEAVE IT"
command, eh, diddler?:

diddler the shit stain smeared on the walls
with her finger dipped in bloody poop:

"I would not allow that behavior AT ALL.

Inconsistancies are going to come back and bite
you. I don't understand how, you as a trainer,
don't comprehend this.

Having a 100% reliable dog does not
EVER allow for mitigated circumstances.

A well-trained dog is a lifestyle.

You teach a dog to LEAVE it. A dog should be
taught to obey. I can call any of my dogs off
in full chase and ask them to drop anything
they are doing, and they will.

I think that should be expected of any breed, and
those who do not teach "leave it" fundementals
atre missing the boat"

--------------------------

BWEEEEAAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!

Re: Just scheduled blood test--Zipper too
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
Seems to me, that should be a standard question for
any pet having any problems at this time.
I took Tuck in last Wednesday to the vets because two weeks
before, he had chewed some old treated lumber. Knowing that
treated lumber used to be treated with Arsenic, and he ate a
substantial amount, I took him into the emergency clinic and
they treated him for arsenic poisoning.

A week later, he still had a raw stomach, esophagus and stomach (revealed by
endoscopy). He was treated with
buffers, and antibiotics to prevent infection of the inflamed
tissues.

Wednesday, still not right, but improving, I took him
back in for a recheck.

The first thing the vet did, was ask what foods I was feeding.
Which I understood why, but felt considering his current history,
was rather a unnecessary question. I felt we pretty much knew
what was going on with him.

Since he was greatly improved, we decided not to do another
endoscopy and just watch him. He's 100% back to normal.

Hope Cali is too.

------------


BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!

LUCKY THING you can just train a "LEAVE IT"
command, eh, diddler?:

diddler the shit stain smeared on the walls
with her finger dipped in bloody poop:

"I would not allow that behavior AT ALL.

Inconsistancies are going to come back and bite
you. I don't understand how, you as a trainer,
don't comprehend this.

Having a 100% reliable dog does not
EVER allow for mitigated circumstances.

A well-trained dog is a lifestyle.

You teach a dog to LEAVE it. A dog should be
taught to obey. I can call any of my dogs off
in full chase and ask them to drop anything
they are doing, and they will.

I think that should be expected of any breed, and
those who do not teach "leave it" fundementals
atre missing the boat"

--------------------------

BWEEEEAAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!

"diddy" <***@nospam.diddy.net> wrote in message news:***@216.196.97.142...

I've scorned your counter surfing dog all these years. I just
discovered this morning,I had one also. I was slicing Beef
tongue (remember the tongue table re: tribute to Cate's
mom?) and I left it on the counter, mwhile I went to read email.

I suddenly saw movement in the kitchen and there was
Tuck scarfing down 7 pounds of sliced tongue. Oh my
goodness gracious, where did he put all of that?

ANYWAY... I owe you an apology.

humiliated in Ohio

diddy

---------------------

BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!

LUCKY THING you can just train a "LEAVE IT"
command, eh, diddler?:

diddler the shit stain smeared on the walls
with her finger dipped in bloody poop:

"I would not allow that behavior AT ALL.

Inconsistancies are going to come back and bite
you. I don't understand how, you as a trainer,
don't comprehend this.

Having a 100% reliable dog does not
EVER allow for mitigated circumstances.

A well-trained dog is a lifestyle.

You teach a dog to LEAVE it. A dog should be
taught to obey. I can call any of my dogs off
in full chase and ask them to drop anything
they are doing, and they will.

I think that should be expected of any breed, and
those who do not teach "leave it" fundementals
atre missing the boat"

--------------------------

BWEEEEAAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!

"diddy" <***@diddy.net> wrote in message news:***@216.196.97.142...
On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 09:06:26 -0500, diddy <***@diddy.net> wrote:

my new puppy, Tuck, grabbed a raw chicken
wing and wolfed it down on sunday.

He's been in the hospital daily, admitted sometimes,
and home montored others.

He's been supported supported daily by fluids, hoping
he would pass it, but he's destabilizing fast, and has
just gone into surgery to have it removed from his stomach,
and his intestines have intuscepted from being empty
for so long, and they need surgery also.

-------------------------------

BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!

LUCKY THING you can just train a "LEAVE IT"
command, eh, diddler?:

diddler the shit stain smeared on the walls
with her finger dipped in bloody poop:

"I would not allow that behavior AT ALL.

Inconsistancies are going to come back and bite
you. I don't understand how, you as a trainer,
don't comprehend this.

Having a 100% reliable dog does not
EVER allow for mitigated circumstances.

A well-trained dog is a lifestyle.

You teach a dog to LEAVE it. A dog should be
taught to obey. I can call any of my dogs off
in full chase and ask them to drop anything
they are doing, and they will.

I think that should be expected of any breed, and
those who do not teach "leave it" fundementals
atre missing the boat"

--------------------------

BWEEEEAAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!

Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
From: diddy <***@whoops.I.said.WHAT?>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 12:51:33 -0500
Subject: Re: Disaster plans for dog owners

We left Reka outside, Mr beeegs crated, Taya in the
house.. because Reka plays when Taya doesn't want
to, and Danny came with me. I forgot Taya counter
surf'd. I had 3 sticks of summer sausage sitting on the
table that I was going to give away.

When I came home, all three sticks were gone, with
only the paper skins left that I'd wrapped them with.

Taya had eaten over 5 POUNDS of summer sausage!
I just had to laugh, because otherwise, I'd have cried.
diddy

---------------

BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!

LUCKY THING you can just train a "LEAVE IT"
command, eh, diddler?:

diddler the shit stain smeared on the walls
with her finger dipped in bloody poop:

"I would not allow that behavior AT ALL.

Inconsistancies are going to come back and bite
you. I don't understand how, you as a trainer,
don't comprehend this.

Having a 100% reliable dog does not
EVER allow for mitigated circumstances.

A well-trained dog is a lifestyle.

You teach a dog to LEAVE it. A dog should be
taught to obey. I can call any of my dogs off
in full chase and ask them to drop anything
they are doing, and they will.

I think that should be expected of any breed, and
those who do not teach "leave it" fundementals
atre missing the boat"

--------------------------

BWEEEEAAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
Curious how many choose to crate a dog forever,
whenever they leave the house and/or overnight,
or how many choose to wean from household
crate usage (usage being shutting the dog in the
crate, not the dog choosing to hang out there) at
some specific ages or maturity levels.
Not for how long during a workday, but how
long for a dog's lifespan?
I plan on crating Tuck whenever NOT supervised
(which isn't often.. he usually is with me) Until the
day that he quits tearing apart everything in sight
when I leave the room.

A dog proof room doesn't work.

He's figured out door knobs. He's figured out cupboards,
and he loves to tug open dresser drawers. He's not
interested in anything left out in the open.

He's into treasure hunting, figuring anything worth
secreting away is worth his effort discovering. He's
discovered the sock stash is in drawers.

Trash cans? --not interested.
Counter tops? --not interested
Counter tops -with food? --not interested
Dog food sitting on the floorin open bags? --not interested

razor blades from bathroom drawers? ... Very cool stuff!

Mom really gets bent too!

nope.. His crate is going to be occupied for
some time to come.

As for the beagle.. She's never been trustworthy.
She's getting senile and never will be trustworthy,
so a crate is in her future until she crosses the bridge.

Reka, no crate at no time, She lost her crate when she was
5 months old. Both Tuck, and reka hangout in crates by choice.

Reka dens in the bathtub usually. (kind of a crate) But she
likes the beagles vantage point, because the beagles crate
is on top of Tuck's. Right next to the window so she can see
out.

Tuck prefers the compartment with a view as well.
I always have to vacate him (even though the crate
on top is too small for both elkhounds, it's their preferred lookout) when I
want to stick in the beagle.

Reka sleeps under the bed at night or in the bathtub at night
if it's really hot. She sleeps in the bathtub by day when not
watching from the penthouse suite.

Tuck is not crated at night, and has chosen to sleep in
the closet. The beagle holds down the couch, night and day.

--------------

BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!

LUCKY THING you can just train a
"LEAVE IT" command, eh, diddler?:

diddler the shit stain smeared on the walls
with her finger dipped in bloody poop:

"I would not allow that behavior AT ALL.

Inconsistancies are going to come back and
bite you. I don't understand how, you as a
trainer, don't comprehend this.

Having a 100% reliable dog does not
EVER allow for mitigated circumstances.

A well-trained dog is a lifestyle.

You teach a dog to LEAVE it.

A dog should be taught to obey.

I can call any of my dogs off in full chase
and ask them to drop anything they are
doing, and they will.

I think that should be expected of any breed, and
those who do not teach "leave it" fundementals
atre missing the boat"

--------------------------------

BWEEEEAAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!

Here's diddler trainin her neighbors dog not to eat her garbage:

"My Husband Shot A Dog That Had Been Tearing
Up Trash Up And Down Our Road For Years Making
An Unbelievable Mess. When We Finally Killed The
Culprit, The Whole Road Cheered," diddler.

From: diddy (***@diddy.net)
Subject: Re: Dog Shot, Neighbor Charged, Anchorage AK
Date: 2002-11-08

I guess if I felt Danny was threatened, it's the way
I would react. There would be none left standing
to deal with the threat just in case.

If someone hurt him, I would not let borders or
continents stop me from pursuing justice.

Then again, I always feed Danny INSIDE. If
someone is feeding his dog outside, his own
dog might not mean THAT much to him.

If he was feeding his dog outside though, many
dogs are food aggressive, and that could most
certainly spark a dog aggression thing.

(and if the dog was penned quietly outside, what
was it doing in his yard?)

I shot a neighbors dog one night for chasing my
horses and called him to help me find it. I would
do the same for threatening my dog.

My husband shot a dog that had been tearing up
trash up and down our road for years making an
unbelievable mess.

When we finally killed the culprit, the whole road
cheered. Animal control had never been able in
years to catch this critter. (we think it was feral it
was certainly unkempt enough to have been....
and it had been shot at by MANY of the neighbors,
but it never frightened it off enough to keep it from
NOT tearing up the road the next trash day)

----------------


HOWE COME you didn't just train a
"LEAVE IT" command,
eh, diddler?:

diddler the shit stain smeared on the walls
with her finger dipped in bloody poop:

"I would not allow that behavior AT ALL.

Inconsistancies are going to come back and bite
you. I don't understand how, you as a trainer,
don't comprehend this.

Having a 100% reliable dog does not
EVER allow for mitigated circumstances.

A well-trained dog is a lifestyle.

You teach a dog to LEAVE it. A dog should be
taught to obey. I can call any of my dogs off
in full chase and ask them to drop anything
they are doing, and they will.

I think that should be expected of any breed, and
those who do not teach "leave it" fundementals
atre missing the boat"

--------------------------

BWEEEEAAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!

From: diddy <***@diddy.net>
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 11:27:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Dog Shot, Neighbor Charged, Anchorage AK
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
| My husband shot a dog that had been tearing up
| trash up and down our road for years making an
| unbelievable mess. When we finally killed the
| culprit, the whole road cheered. Animal control
| had never been able in years to catch this critter.
| (we think it was feral it was certainly unkempt
| enough to have been....and it had been shot at by
| MANY of the neighbors, but it never frightened
| it off enough to keep it from NOT tearing up the
| road the next trash day)
Y'all take killing dogs pretty lightly. I'd have tolerated
the trash problem before I would have killed the dog.
No kidding.
But putting up with it wouldn't have been necessary.
The trash could have been better secured and the
problem would have been resolved.
Yep. Where's the condemnation of the people not
securing their trash. Especially since, IIRC, this is
the country we're talking about.
Cate
They were in the standard Rumpke plastic
waste containers they MUST be in.

If you are upset I advise you to keep your dogs at home.
As i repeated before, the time Danny and Taya got loose,
for all the dangers they faced out there, cars, disease,
coyotes, etc, the most immediate danger they were in,
was being shot.

This is why I immediately started canvassing the area
with full color door to door handouts emblazoned with
REWARD. DO NOT SHOOT these dogs across the top.
I knew every second they were loose, they were in grave
danger of being shot. At that time, Our dog pound was
on 20/20 for being one of the worst in the country (it's
not now, it's a modern model facility) i WANTED my
dogs there.

It meant they weren't out there being shot.

They would throw dogs in pens of 10-20 dogs, In spite
of the dirt and filth, if they got there, I had a chance of
recovery.

Roaming in this area is a very bad thing,
and people WILL shoot dogs.

Happens all the time.

If you like your dog, you keep it home.

A persons personal animals are more valueable to
them than your animal you don't think enough of to
keep at home.

--------------

LIKE THIS:

From: diddy <***@nospam.diddy.net>
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 07:30:27 -0500

Subject: Re: teaching dogs "jobs"

(They were taught NEVER EVER to step on a road....
No foot EVER touches the road!) Danny lost a tracking
test once, because the test crossed a seldom used
gravel road.

When he reached the road, a car just happened to
go by. He refused to cross the road, and when I took
him by the collar and nudged him, I was Disqualified
for aiding the dog.

Danny simply will NOT cross a road.. when he
was intact, not EVEN for a bitch in season.

Now you have a dog that...

WHOOOOPS!

Whoops, Danny And Taya run away from
unsecured yard and imbecile owner BUT
CAREFULLY AVOID CROSSIN A ROAD.
Will they survive life out in the wilderness
out amongst diddler's coyote traps?

Will they get mistaken for coyotes and sold
to the highest bidder at the fur auction?

Or will they live again to do a help dummy diddy
do a demonstration on safe and responsible pet
ownership in the kitchen with the vet's office kitten?

Stay tuned, fans...
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
Subject: Off Topic --MISSING DOGS
Date: 1999/04/14
I realize this has absolutely nothing to do with
Disney. Parks, but since those of us on this
newsgroup are from all over the country, I thought
you would understand this one time intrusion. We
are desperate to find these dogs....Please, if you
have any information, contact the e-mail address
at the bottom of the note. Thank you for your
understanding.........
Karyl Parks' (aka diddler) dog Danny - Ch. Alpha's
Decorum (I think that is his correct registered name)
is missing . For those that have never met Danny -
he is very special. Both trained for Search and
Rescue
You'd think her SAR dog could find his own way
back to his own HOWES, provided they ain't gotta
CROSS A ROAD gettin back???
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
as well as service dog trained, CDX, etc.
But IT can't find ITS way back to his own HOWES?
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
He does all the things that service dogs do
Like run HOWET on his people and not return?
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
from opening doors, turning on lights, getting
clothes and shoes.
You FORGOT MURDERIN the vet's office kitty kat
and escaping and destructively chewing a rug and
gettin locked in a box in an HOWEtbuilding to muffle
his CRYING till he was SHITTIN BLOOD and went in
for intestinal obstruction.
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
He is a marvel.
Naaah. You want a MARVEL? **MARVEL** at
that STUPID KAT that PAINICKED when diddler
snared IT in her leg hold STRANGLE / CHOKE
choke trap. She'd have BLUDGEONED IT had IT
not been wearin a collar. Perhaps she was lookin
for a REWARD, bein a SUBSISTANCE hunter
and all.

You call tying the dog to a wall training, diddler, like
HOWE you trained your fence to train your dog?
diddy wrote:

"I admit our system fails occasionally"
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
We have a beagle. Before we got our last one, we
knew what to expect and spent a year re-enforcing
the fence.
"I admit our system fails occasionally"
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
What we did.
"I admit our system fails occasionally"
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
Double fencing, hardware cloth lined on the inside.
Wood ties under gates. A chicken wire apron extending
out into the yard 12 inches. (hog ringed to the upright
fencing). We chose chicken wire because it was flexible
and ground conforming. grass grows right over it, making
it invisible and easy to mow over. It's tacked down by tent
stakes every 10 inches. (this is our most considerable
investment)
"I admit our system fails occasionally"
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
The problems with it is that it eventually disintegrates,
rusts, pulls apart and need repair a lot. We placed tile
blocks over the top, because the tent stakes stick up,
and sometimes get hit by the lawnmower.
"I admit our system fails occasionally"
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
Overall, it's a pretty decent system and works
MOST of the time.
"I admit our system fails occasionally"
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
The beagle is persistent, and tends to work the inner
fencing, that's flimsy down, or tear it, making exit holes.
We recently cut down a couple yard trees that broke down
sections of the fence and they need re-enforcement.
"I admit our system fails occasionally"
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
When the weather breaks, a whole new fence
is in order, but the system works MOST of the time.
"I admit our system fails occasionally"
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
We did install an underground perimeter E-fence
at the fence line, and found a single strand 12 inch
high electric cattle fence around the perimeter was
just as effective, cheaper, less bothersome (no need
to wear heavy e-collars.. especially that mess up coats),
but both needed occassional maintenence.
"I admit our system fails occassionally"
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
What we did.
"I admit our system fails occassionally"
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
I admit our system fails occassionally, especially
when snow drifts are over the top of the fences
and erase any identifiable fenceline.
"I admit our system fails occassionally"
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
We installed (BEFORE getting the beagle) a 100
foot trolly line that crosses the yard.
"I admit our system fails occassionally"
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
This is a safe, effective restraint system that has
always worked when immediate repairs or extra
security is desired.
If I go away and leave the beagle outside. He goes
to the trolly line, whether the containment system
is currently working or not.
"I admit our system fails occassionally"
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
It's great for emergency situations, and the $17
last resort system gets used for the beagle far
more than I ever expected. It still allows reasonable
exercise range of area and mobility. The elkhounds
and the beagle still play avidly, and it's the cheapest
piece of mind security ever.
"I admit our system fails occassionally"
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
A trolly tether system is the best for temporary
containment while discovering where the leak
is. In the snow, it's easy to discover the
leak. In the summer, it's more difficult.
"I admit our system fails occassionally"
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
I do not like, or use our current underground collar system
"I admit our system fails occassionally"

BWEEEAAAHAHAAA~!~!~!
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
Because she's IMPORTANT to me.I'm proud of her. She
wasn't competing in anything. But she's an integral part
of my life, and It never occurred to me NOT to take her.
AS STATED, on accHOWENTA
YOU CAN'T LEAVE HER ALONE.
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
No one Inquired about her titles, or lack of.
Hey diddler? Remember when you went over to timmy
aka buzzsaw's and jerked an choked an shocked his
dog till IT couldn't be jerked an choked an shocked
nodoGdameneD more and STILL COULDN'T TRAIN
him not to chase squirrels?
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
They remarked that she was a very well behaved,
well adjusted, nice dog. And that she is. It doesn't
take a title to prove that. And She's beautiful....
She's the prettiest Dog I've ever had. She has
no championship, Nor does she need one to
acknowledge her beauty. She's Comfort food.
Yeah. And you're INSANE. AND a LIAR.

diddler the shit stain scrawled on the walls
with her finger dipped in bloody poop:

From: diddy <***@scared.to.death.with.our.political.situation>
Subject: Separation Anxiety

All this talk of SA. Thios goes way off topic, but it's
SA to the extreme.. but goes both ways. I know Danny
has Separation anxiety.

He doesn't do physical damage, he internalizes it.

Which I wish he wouldn't.

The vets all try to "fix" it and consider it a real problem.
I don't see it that way. I feel physically ill without him.

So it's mutual. I have made sure Reka does not EVER
get that attached. I do not want "our" mutual separation
anxiety fixed.

I just take Danny me everywhere, and am honored
by his company. I resent the vets that they consider
this a "problem".

In fact, I stole him out of a specialists care that thought
the SA should be fixed right then and there. They kept
me out in the waiting room for five days and nights, while
my dog was on the other side of the door.

He escaped, knowing I would be there for him. He
opened, what they considered inescapable cages,
under 24 hour observation.

It takes 2 hands to operate the latch, and apparently
he used a paw and a tongue to break free dragging
his intubations and iv's with him as he burst into the
waiting room to be with me.

I burst into tears and was so happy to see him.

The doctors couldn't throw me out of there, because
it was a 24 hour clinic. But they decided his SA was
inconducive to his health.

They were going to fix it right then and there.

They ordered that I was NOT to see my dog.

I was deeply resentful of this, and the next time Danny
escaped (and he did) I grabbed him and ran from the clinic.
I called my vet on the 2 hour trip home, and told him I was
on my way home with my dog, and he needed supportive care.

My vet allowed me to stay with my dog.

He had excellent care. Top Notch. But I don't understand why
vets seem to think THEY own the dog while in their care. I
was paying for this.

I don't and never understood how a vet seemed to think they
have the right to keep you from your pet. I would never take
my dog back there. Apparently since he had been passed from
specialist to specialist, this was the only place that could
perform the surgery he needed.

But they were totally insensitive to the
emotional needs of both dog and client.

-----------------------

"diddy" <***@nospam.diddy.net> wrote in message news:***@216.196.97.132...

I loathe that ear cropping is done. On traditionally ear-
cropped dogs, I LIKE them that way.

I wouldn't have a doberman any other way.

I had two dobermans, and thought their ear
croppings brutal. i don't consider tail docking
brutal.

I prefer men circumcised. I guess that's TMI.
If my husband suffered from the procedure,
he's gotten over it.

-----------------

DIDDY AND THE DOBERMAN WHO BLED
TOO MUCH for her OWN GOOD
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
It's explained on the AKC website. And I'm very sorry to
hear this. I too had a dog that I wanted to finish
Oh, here's one you finished alright, you finished her real
good because she made you late for work after you cut her
ears off.

Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 13:03:37 -0400
From: diddy <***@nospam.diddy.net>
Organization: bright.net Ohio
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
There is a detailed explanation of the pain side of things
in the report I mentioned to Lone. If I can get the new
lead for my scanner [hopefully today], would you like me to
e-mail it to you so you have the veterinary
view of it ?
I someone crops ears, I feel it's for hygenic methods
as well as aesthetics.

I'm not saying cropping is not painful,
taking two dobermans through cropping
(one with von Willebrawns.. and THAT
was ugly -

- and I finally put her to sleep at one year old
because I kept coming home from work finding
my house in a bloodbath every time I came
home from work, and was told I was going to
get fired for absentee if I continued to miss work
in the afternoons after coming home for lunch,
and having to run the dog to the vet.

The mental stress of dealing with such a dog
was unreal, dealing with the unknowns of what
she was going to do next (tear a nail, puncture
herself, bruise herself.. the emergencies she
created for herself were unreal)

She also kept catching her dew claws on things,
and I finally had them removed.

---------------------------

diddler wrote:

I think paper training is ALWAYS a bad idea if
you ever plan on expecting them to potty outside.

It makes the process harder.

I suggest crate training her, so she can be managed
in between potty periods. After she goes outside
successfully, she can then have supervised free time
until she's due for another potty interval.

Take her out if she doesn't go, crate her, and offer
her frequent trips outside until she's successful. No
bedding in the crate.

When she nips, don't play any more.I'd crate her
for rough play.

I also press athumb intheir soft palate, and let
them" TRY" to spit me out. They soon enough
learn that I am something they do NOT want
in their mouths

-------------

LUCKY THING you can just train a "LEAVE IT"
command, eh, diddler?:

diddler the shit stain smeared on the walls
with her finger dipped in bloody poop:

"I would not allow that behavior AT ALL.

Inconsistancies are going to come back and bite
you. I don't understand how, you as a trainer, don't
comprehend this.

Having a 100% reliable dog does not
EVER allow for mitigated circumstances.

A well-trained dog is a lifestyle.

You teach a dog to LEAVE it.

A dog should be taught to obey.

I can call any of my dogs off in full chase
and ask them to drop anything they are
doing, and they will.

I think that should be expected of any breed,
and those who do not teach "leave it" fundementals
atre missing the boat"

---------------------------

HOWEDY diddler,
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
I don't think under the circumstances described, Leah
is NOT guilty of theft. Deception, possibly.. but
that's really iffy. She has broken no laws. Her
behavior has not fullfilled an ethical or moral
standard as would be expected from a professional
trainer.
And when you shot the neighbor's dog, you did so to
avoid the moral dilemma which Leah is being raked over
the coals for? You know, you could have took the dog in
and fed him, loved him, trained him and dewormed him,
like leah has done. And your horses would have been
safe.
But apparently, instead, you did the right thing...
and shot him.
Fuck OFF MIKEY
Excuse me Mikey, I just traced this.
Did you now, diddler? Kinda like huntin, ain't it?
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
Fuck OFF JERRY! *PLONK*
Sorry diddler, you got me wrong, just like you did
all them kats and your dog shittin blood, diddler.
You can't shoot strangle or track straight.

HOWEDY diddler,
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
Just curious if these methods are still encouraged;
koehler is recommended by our professor SCRUFF
SHAKE when the dog is too big and too dangerous
to scruff shake noMOORE.
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
I personally could never do it.
Most of our experts are devout koehler fans.

HOWEver, they'll deny they use the painful parts. koehler
warns against that, sez that's HOWE COME people got
to kill their dogs, cause they don't follow the method
EXACTLY. Just like HOWE it sez in your FREE copy
of my FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method manual.
Only difference is, koehler sez you can't STOP hurting,
your FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method manual sez
you can't even scream NO or scruff shake your dog.
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
Wayne
There are still some old advocates,
You mean all our expert advisors here on
our dog forums, diddler.
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
mostly in the law enforcement and security dog world.
Not noMOORE, diddler.
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
This method separates the squeamish and soft dogs
Is that so, diddler? What's a SOFT dog, diddler? I never
heard of a soft dog. Are you talkin soft like fat assed and
lazy, like our experts here? Or are you talkin soft like in
out of shape MENTALLY?

Or do you mean to say dogs that can't take a lot of BEATIN?
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
(something that is detrimental in LE)
Is that so, diddler? You mean dogs in security and police and
military work should LIKE being BEATEN? Is that DESIRABLE?
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
from those hard dogs that let anything bounce off them
Anything, diddler? You mean like BULLETS? Or do you
mean like TRAINING STICKS and SHOCKING and
CHOKING, diddler?

Are you talking about a dog that don't MIND being
choked and shocked and beaten and hung? Is that
what you mean by hard Vs soft dogs, diddler?
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
as if it never happened.
Yeah. It never happened, diddler. NOBODY here
hurts dogs.

Ask matty. Ask Binaca bethFIST. Ask janet boss.
Ask Master Of Deception blankman and melanie
and leah and liea and professor scruff shake?
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
I would hope those training for pet use would not
find his methods of the 1930's and 40's still logical.
Well, well, well, diddler. I guess you must be a newbie here.
Either that, or you're one of the LYING DOG ABUSING THUG
COWARDS we got here who hurts and kills dogs and LIES
about it, diddler? Naaah. Not YOU. You're even on our kat
forums.
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
I shudder reading them,
Do you now, diddler? Some of us CRINGE.
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
and thank forward moving trainers for
moving us out of the dark ages.
Oh, indeedy, diddler. Thank you for supporting
pain fear intimidation and death.
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
You would think he hates dogs.
Naah. He's a professional dog trainer, diddler. Most of our
dog lovers here swear by their koehler method for the really
tough dogs. The ones that LIKE to be beaten and HUNG.
Meanwhile, the heel with koehler diddler, we got a
worse scumbag to identify and expose.

That be YOU.

Here's diddler the ETHICKAL BREEDER:

From: diddy <***@nofair.spamming.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:07:51 -0500
Subject: Re: "Timmie's in the well!!"
Post by Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
Since Bodhi has arrived, Coda has earned himself a new
nickname: "Fun Police".
(Regardless if it's something he would've done
as a puppy or not!)
LOL! Isn't that funny - kind of the opposite of Kavik.
Danny is a fun police also!! Miss Reka and Mr
beeeeegs frustratingly just ignore him. (Danny
never did those things in his youth, however,
as he was a very serious puppy, hence, I thought
he had a potential temperament problem and
didn't sell him)
Temperment problems? Isn't that funny. Danny.
Temperment problems. Its a damn good thing
you didn't sell him though.
Dannys mother had temperament problems.. and
I had leased her to breed (she was a top producing
kennel dog), when brought into a home condition,
she had no resiliency. She was finished as a puppy
in just 5 shows, and then never left the kennel again
except to whelp puppies.

I very much admired her structure/pedigree/bloodlines
/health testing/" get and their performance records"
She had just had a litter and had to be bottle raised
because she had no milk.

The breeder lamented that she thought she would
probably not ever be bred again because of the milk
problem. I took her home on vacation.

however i signed legal lease papers with a breeding
clause. I never intended to breed her. I thought the
papers i was signing was to prevent me from breeding her.

After keeping her for two years, the breeder told
me it was time to breed her and return half the
litter that I owed during her "lease" I told her I did
NOT want to breed her, and her phobia about
leaving fences, fear of noises, etc was not something
i wanted to have in a dog.

She said i "OWED" her a 1/2 litter of puppies per contract.
i long ago threw out my contract, and she sent me a copy
of hers. Sure enough, I HAD to breed her. I argued that
she was not temperamentally sound.

She was a ditz, and trying to work with her only to find
her so institutionalized that when she dissappeared,
she was ALWAYS standing at the gate shivering wanting
to get INTO the safety of the fenced yard.

(running away was not an issue with her.. she couldn't
stand being in a decision making situation,, and couldn't
stand being outside a fence...hardly the kind of dog that
fits my lifestyle)

I did the obligatory breeding, and never dealt with that
breeder again. Danny was an offspring of tthat litter. I
was worried looking for instability.

Her offspring from other litters had a history of
being darlings, but with the neurotic behavior
she had) Danny would never play.

He would sit analyzing anything the other puppies
did, and if they screamed, he would never do what
they did again. He wouldn't play... He just watched,
deciding what was ok.. and what wasn't.

He figured if a puppy screamed while they were
roughhousing, all roughhousing was bad. He'd
be in the middle of the pack trying to break them
up (fun police).. he took this to extreme in every
facet of his life, and I feared he was going to be
like his mom, and eventually aftraid to leave the fence.

The home I had picked for him had two little boys,
and I was afraid they would intimidate him (in spite
of them being great and gentle little boys, into being
a fear biter if forced beyond the bounds of what he
thought he was appropriate.)

So i kept Danny and gave this family
glowing refeerrals to another family.

They watched Danny grow up, and his accomplishments,
and felt that I kept "Their" dog out of selfish reasons. They
knew he was a "star" and just kept him from them *sigh*
Danny was the easiest yet hardest dog i ever had to train
in my life.

He was bright, tried never to make any mistakes, you only showed him
something once, he took learning so seriously
that he would practice.

Yet if he failed or misunderstood, he crashed. He'd be
afraid to try it again, or assume the whole exercise was
wrong, and he was to never do that exercise again.

If he feared he was going to make a mistake, he stood
there like a statue with his eyes closed and just shook.

He has been since VERY young, a perfectionist. He's still a
perfectionist. Yes, I considered this a temperament fault when
carried to this extreme. He worries about perfection even now,
until he gets ulcers :)

He did not belong in the home that was supposed to
be his. That home lost their dog they got instead,
because the kids let the gate open, and the dog ran
out and got killed in traffic.

I'm glad he stayed.

His puppies also have that sensitivity and perfectionist
streak. In the right hands, it's a gift. In the wrong hands,
it's a disaster. Is it a temperament problem? yes and no..
it's not a temperament just any family usa should have
and could deal with.

so in essence, it's a temperament problem.

To me, and those homes who got his puppies,
and then had me do in home visits to teach them
how to handle it have found it a special gift.

He's definitely a dog that is not for everyone.

His great great grandfather was also known more
for his intelligence than his championship, He won
a National Specialty, and yet he was bred twice,
and his puppies had the same wierdness and intelligence.

MOST people couldn't handle them, and he got neutered.

Never-the-less, Danny has three crosses in his
pedigree to this same fruity dog.

I think he got it honestly.

On the same note, Danny passes it on. I had to
work with every one of those puppies in their homes.

Every one of them spent a month or more in my
house at a year old doing rehab , before I spent
a week or more in their owners houses teaching
them how to train and work with their pups.

A litter that requires this DOES have temperament
issues. At the same time, each of these families
has their name on a list, should I ever breed Danny
again (He has semen on store)

I sold every pup on a spay/neuter contract (this was
before limited registration) One violated that contract
and bred their dog anyway. He's a champion and as
the only pup from Danny that was ever bred, many
people bred to him.

Those puppies did NOT have the support my Danny
puppies had, and there were a bunch of disturbed
and temperament problems in those litters.

I've been rescueing Elkhounds trying to clean up the
mess since. You could never guess by looking at Danny
that there was a temperament problem.

It was trained out when he was very young.

It's non-existant.. but it's there in his genes.. in that
can in storage.

It's the reason I never bred him again. Although I
would "like to" someday. If I could find the right bitch,
and knew that she would have only "ONE" puppy..
for "me".

I had discovered that that very temperament weakness
was his strength that made him very special. Because
it takes special handling to turn it from detriment to gift..

I _do_ consider it a "problem".

---------------------------------

And then you WONder...
And then you don't <{}: ~ ( >

BWEEEAAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
2009-03-26 15:16:27 UTC
Permalink
HOWEDY nicky, you pathetic miserable stinkin rotten
lyin animal murderin punk thug coward active acute
chronic life-long INCURABLE Malignant MaliciHOWES
MENTAL CASE,
At least what I post is a truthful and detailed account
of something that apparently others do not know, or
have chosen to disbelieve. It is in response to direct
attacks on the veracity of what I have said, or distortions
of the truth, or other statements to which I feel I must
respond.
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
Go back and look at the pattern of the posts in this
thread. I made several posts in response to the OP,
which were on-topic or in reference to the rather poor
treatment he received from the regulars here.
You mean, the MENTAL PATIENTS <{}: ~ ( >
And the most negative, and largest, part of the
thread originated with Nick's unnecessary picking
of one simple and matter-of-fact reference to my
obedience training experience with Janet.
Yeah, well, janet an nicky got a lot in common;
THEY BOTH MURDERED THEIR OWN DEAD
DOGS through their OBEDIENCE TRAININ <{}:~ ( >
And he apparently responded as he did only because
he thought she might have me killfiled and would not
know that I had casually mentioned her training in my
post. I respect her for staying out of this thread,
She GOT NO DEFENSE <{}:~ ( >
but most of the others, not so much.
So the other MENTAL PATIENTS make EXXXCUSES for her.
Paul and Muttley
It was neither simple nor matter of fact, it was a calculated
attack against Janet's Business and reputation.
Oh, you mean THIS REPUTATION, nicky?:

Meanwhile, back at the NUT HOWES:

"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him
a stern correction" --Janet Boss

http://tinyurl.com/5m6ppt

"Rudy is going to start learning the e-collar this week.
I'm sure you'll NOT hear screams from across the pond."

"J1Boss" <***@aol.com> wrote in message news:***@mb-m18.aol.com...

He was next to me and I could see his neck
muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.

Janet Boss
I can't imagine needing anything higher than a 5
with it, even with an insensitive dog like a Lab.
An INSENSITIVE DOG???
I can't remember what model of Innotek I have,
but I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.
========

BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
And if you have a problem with me defending defamation
of someone who is probably unaware,
DEFEND THIS, nicky?:

HERE'S janet's OBEDIENCE TRAININ partner
who heelped nessa BREAK HER DOG Bagel's
neck an taught them to TURN ON HER:

: From: Sionnach (***@msn.com)
: Subject: Re: another question from me and joy?
:
: Date: 2002-04-10 19:40:33 PST
: "BethF" wrote:
: > I don't think any of our regulars bite
: > their dogs ears to leash train them.
: He's repeating one of Jerry's confabulations... I did,
: once, lightly nip a seriously out-of-control, temper-
: tantruming Labrador on the ear to get her attention.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
: > <yawn> Once again- that's NOT a quote
: > from any post of mine; JH "wrote" it, not me.
:
: No, that's a flat HOWET lie, sinofabich. It's a
: direct quote from YOU, with exception of TWO
: WORDS, "smartly" and "neatly."
:
: > It's quotes from two different posts, by two
: > different people -
:
: ONLY if you're SCHIZOPHRENIC, sinofabitch.
:
: > both taken out of context-
:
: YOU'RE A LIAR.
:
: We got your original post in The Puppy Wizard's Archives.
:
: You'll see your own words EXXXACTLY as QUOTED.
: And we'll likeWIZE see you DENYING your own words
: in three different ways!!!
:
: > and with extra wording added in by a third person.
:
: NO. YOU'RE A LIAR.
:
: The ONLY "extra words," SMARTLY and NEATLY,
: were INDEEDY, added by The Puppy Wizard, HOWEver
: they were NOT SIGNIFICANT, except for poetic license:
:
: You're a liar and a dog abuser and a MENTAL CASE:
:
: "When it was obvious that she had NO intention
: of paying any attention to anything but the other
: dogs (and that I was in danger of having my arm
: dislocated <G>), I didn't even think about it; I
: dropped the leash, threw my right arm over the
: Lab's shoulder, grabbed her opposite foot with
: my left hand, rolled her on her side, leaned on
: her, said "GRRRR!" and nipped her ear (not
: particularly hard- I wasn't trying to *hurt* her,
: just get her attention!)."
:
: From: Sionnach (***@msn.com)
: Subject: Re: I dropped the leash!
: Date: 2003-12-15 07:55:16 PST
:
: > "I Dropped The Leash, Threw My Right Arm
: > Over The Lab's Shoulder, Grabbed Her Opposite
: > Foot With My Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
: > Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into Her Throat
: > And Said "GRRRR!" And Neatly Nipped Her Ear,"
:
: <yawn> That's not a quote written by me, kiddo.
: That's an amalgam of two different people's posts,
: with extra words added by Jerry.
:
: From: Sionnach (***@msn.com)
: Subject: Re: another question from me and joy?
:
: Date: 2002-04-10 19:40:33 PST:

: "BethF" wrote:
: > I don't think any of our regulars bite their dogs ears
: > to leash train them.
:
: He's repeating one of Jerry's confabulations... I did,
: once, lightly nip a seriously out-of-control, temper-
: tantruming Labrador on the ear to get her attention.
:
: It had fuck-all to do with leash training though, and
: everything to do with getting through to an incredibly
: hard-headed, tough-minded, and spoiled-rotten dog
: that A. she was NOT going to physically control me
: the way she had every other female human she'd dealt
: with and B. that I was worth paying attention to.
:
: It came up in a discussion where someone else
: mentioned having nipped a terrier puppy who
: wouldn't stop play-biting. In both cases, it was a
: one-time instinctive response to an unusual situation.

--------------------
: sinofabitch writes:

: > >> What I have said- repeatedly - is that he
: > >> took posts from two different people,
: > >> took pieces of them out of context,
: > >> cobbled them together,
: > >> then added his own words:
:
: "Neatly," and "Smartly."
:
: > >> and a fake signature.
:
: "sinofabitch" instead of sionnach.
:
: > >> Which is exactly what he did.
: > >> The actual quote is misleading
: > >> when taken out of context, and Jerry's
: > >> faked "quote" is downright meaningless.

: > > Here's Jerry's version

: > > "I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
: > > Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
: > > Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
: > > Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
: > > Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
: > > Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
: > > Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.
: > > Here's yours;
: > > "I dropped the leash, threw my
: > > right arm over the Lab's shoulder,
: > > grabbed her opposite foot with my
: > > left hand, rolled her on her side,
: > > leaned on her, said "GRRRR!" and
: > > nipped her ear.
: > > --Sara Sionnach

YOU CAN'T, CAN YOU, nicky??

SEE?

BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
too bad as my ethics dictate I do such.
"I know were not "hurting" her when we hold
her down, as the force is not enough to do
any damage..."
Wow - ONE comment.
You've already said enough, nicky.
Do I do it any more?
You mean, beat your wife kids and dog, nicky?
NO.
BWEEEAAHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!

WHAT CHANGED, nicky?
Serviette?
Touche?
Yeah. SCHTUPPED... BUT GOOD, to say the least, nicky.
I dunno HOWE you do it, Jerry.
It's EZ, nicky. It's ALL in The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's Archives on Google.com, nicky.
You come on these boards to do
nothing but troll and flame and
IDENTIFY EXXXPOSE and DISCREDIT
HOWER Gang Of Lying Dog Abusing
Punk Thug Cowards and ACTIVE LONG
TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASES,
like yourself, nicky.
give NOTHING back.
Let's take your temperature?
People make mistakes -
NOT HERE.

HERE they make ON-PUPORSES.
did I Do the right thing initially with my pup? NO -
DUH-OH?
why do you think I came to post on the boards!
You came here for the SAME SAME SAME
SAME REASON the rest of these LYING DOG
ABUSING PUNK THUG COWARDS and ACTIVE
LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASES come
here, nicky. You WANTED to LEARN HOWE to
HURT and INTIMIDATE your dog ENOUGH to
MAKE IT RESPECT your G-D like AUTHORITY.
I don't so much as look at her crosseyed now,
On accHOWENTA SHE'S DEAD an BURIED <{}: ~ ( >
so why don't you stop?
And THAT would make nicky VERY VERY
VERY HAPPY, WOULD IT, nicky??
Nick
An here's nick's PREDICTABLE results:

Subject: Re: Jezebel is gone

<***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1d176313-bb06-4898-9e93-***@a9g2000prl.googlegroups.com...
She passed last night at 4 am. She had been having neck pain
which we had been taking her to the vet about since Sunday.

We woke up at 3 am to her throwing up and
there was a significant amount of blood in it.

We then had her sleeping between us while we figured out
what to do and at 4 am I got up to let my mother in law in.

She was breathing when I got up and when I
came back she had stopped. I tried to revive
her with CPR, but did not succeed.

She was approximately one year old and I wish I had been
able to spend more than just the two short months with her.

Nick

------------------------

HOWEDY nick,

Looks like your "DOG WHEEESPERER"
trainin BROKE HER NECK.

That happens pretty often here, DON'T IT <{}: ~ ( >

LIKE THIS:

nessa wrote:

Sadly my big beautiful black Bagel went to Rainbow
Bridge on September 18 due to a severe debilitating
neck injury that left him unable to walk and in pain
when he moved his head.

HERE'S HOWE nessa BROKE
HER DEAD DOG Bagles' neck
kinda like HOWE nicks' DEAD
DOG Jezebel got her NECK BROKE:

Subject: Training...

1 From: Nessa
Date: Wed, Jun 12 2002 9:45 pm
Email: Nessa <***@nessa.info>

well both my kids are asleep one on my left and
one on my right. Bagel has taken to running away
every chance he gets now so I have to be ever vigilant.

I have tried every type of collar around. Flat Buckle,
nylon lobster claw slip collar, harness, gentle leader.

Yesterday I watched him on a prong collar.

I SWORE I would NEVER use a prong collar.
He willingly sits to have it put on (as opposed
to fighting me when I put on the gentle leader).

He is no longer pulling on the leash when we walk.

Currently he is doing his 30 minute quiet period
next to my chair with it on since he is leashed and
he is out like a light. So is Hannah.

I tried to find them a place to play off leash tonight
since Bagel has become a happy wanderer and I
couldn't find a safe place so they didn't get as much
play as any of us would like.

I am doing my training with Janet and I am so happy.
Bagel did his sit downs tonight without much fuss and
Hannah watched from the crate. Then we let Hannah
do about 5 minutes of sit and down.

She's getting good at them.

I have been rewarding with treats and tonite I didn't
and they still did what I told them to do. with Bagel
on my left with his head facing front and Hannah on
my right with her head facing back I feel like I have
the most beautiful bookends in the world.

Life with a dog..... PRICELESS

Nessa
--
I don't have issues
I have subscriptions
www.nessa.info

----------------------

BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
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