Discussion:
When is the right time?
(too old to reply)
Paul
2007-05-08 21:28:26 UTC
Permalink
Hi all,

I have a 15 and half year old English Cocker Spaniel who is now getting old
and tired. During her life she has had little in the way of health problems
but over the last two years in particular has slowed down to a point where
she spends the majority of her time sleeping and only wanders as far as the
back garden. She now poo's and wee's in the house which we have learned to
cope with (Vax is very useful!) and will walk around in circles and not be
so interested in contact and been with us. Due to the leaking if is often
necessary to bath her once a day to avoid her smelling too much, we intend
to replace all the carpet once she is no longer with us.

We can no longer leave her with friends/neighbors for the day and it would
now be difficult for us to take her away in the caravan so this year we have
made no plans to go anywhere as we need to stay with her.

I will be devastated when she finally goes, she is my first and only dog and
has been a real friend to me and I will find it so difficult if I have to
make a decision at some point to have her put down.

I guess what I am asking here is am I doing the right thing at the moment, I
do not know what her quality of life is and I suppose I just want to think
its ok and let things carry on for now. It's easy for me to get emotional
over this and a number of years ago I found this poem which I have kept the
link to that brings tears to my eyes every time I look at it
http://www.la-spca.org/pet_loss/comfort/last_battle.htm

I happen to be a 43 year old bloke with a wife and two young children but
when my dog is finally put to rest it is going to be very difficult.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Paul
Sharon Too
2007-05-08 23:07:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
I guess what I am asking here is am I doing the right thing at the moment,
I do not know what her quality of life is and I suppose I just want to
think its ok and let things carry on for now.
There are two ways to think about this. First, count the good days and bad
days. When there are more bad days than good days it's time to start
thinking about ending her life peacefully.

The second, and more vague, is that one day you'll know inside when the time
is right. Don't second guess yourself and please know that ending a pet's
suffering by euthanasia is the kindest act of love you can give her.
H***@HotMail.Com
2007-05-09 00:19:49 UTC
Permalink
HOWEDY sharon aka sharon too you anonymHOWES
veterinary malpractice office manager, mrs. veterinary
malpracticioner, you miserable lyin animal abusing punk
thug coward fraud active acute chronic long term incuarable
mental case,
Post by Sharon Too
Post by Paul
I guess what I am asking here is am I
doing the right thing at the moment,
Well sharon aka sharon too, you've certainly got
the EXXXPERIENCE to know RIGHT from
WRONG, don't you, sharon too <{}: ~ ) >
Post by Sharon Too
Post by Paul
I do not know what her quality of life is and I suppose
I just want to think its ok and let things carry on for now.
But of curse. OtherWIZE, it'd be MURDER, wouldn't it,
sharon aka sharon too, veterinary malpractice office manager
and mrs. veterinary malpracticioner <{}: ~ ) >
Post by Sharon Too
There are two ways to think about this.
That so, sharon? Oh, you mean like HOWE it
was when you recommended Fred turn the baby
opossum his kitty kat SAVED back into the wild
three weeks PRYOR to IT bein ABLE to SURVIVE.

Kinda like he COULD turn IT loose in the backard
for the raccons foxes hawks an kats to rip to shreds,
OR he COULD take IT in an GIVE IT a HOWES
and turn IT loose AFTER it's ABLE to SURVIVE
withHOWET his mommy <{}: ~ ) >

TOUGH DECISION, eh, sharon too?
Post by Sharon Too
First, count the good days and bad days.
Oh, a arithmetic problem, eh, sharon?

Rithmeteck AIN'T as EZ as SPELLIN for The Sincerely
Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy,
Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard who can barely
CHOWENT to ten withHOWET LOOKIN at HIS fingers.
Post by Sharon Too
When there are more bad days than good days it's
time to start thinking about ending her life peacefully.
Oh? A other arithmetic problem, sharon <{}: ~ ) >

Can I just GIVE UP an ask YOU WON?

O.K., here's WON for you, sharon too, mrs. veterinary
malpracticioner, veterinary malpractice office manager.
HOWE many fingers do The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin
Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy,
Birdy And Horsey Wizard got UP?:
_ _
|_| |_|
| | /^^^\ | |
_| |_ (| "o" |) _| |_
_| | | | _ (_---_) _ | | | |_
| | | | |' | _| |_ | `| | | | |
| | / \ | | |
\ / / /(. .)\ \ \ / /
\ / / / | . | \ \ \ / /
\ \/ / ||y|| \ \/ / /
\__/ || || \__/
() ()
|| ||
ooO Ooo
Post by Sharon Too
The second, and more vague,
What's "VAGUE", sharon too?

CAN'T YOU CHOWENT TO TOO?

Ooops! I accidentally told you!

NO FAIR! Let's try again, shall we?

O.K., don't peek!

/'¯/)
,/¯ /
/ /
/´¯ /' '/´¯¯ ·¸
/'/ / / /¨ /¯\
('( ´ ´ ¯/' ')
'\' \ _.·´
\ (
\ \

There! NHOWE lookey! HOWE MANY, sharon?
Post by Sharon Too
is that one day you'll know inside when the time is right.
Oh, you mean like HOWE you KNEW what was beast
for Fred's baby opossum, sharon too, veterinary office
manager, mrs. veterinary malpracticioner <{}; ~ ) >
Post by Sharon Too
Don't second guess yourself
INDEEDY! OtherWIZE you MIGHTA made a veterinary
malpractice MISTAKE advising Fred abHOWET his baby
possum!

Don't your veterinary malpracticioner husband MURDER
innocent defenseless dumb critters JUST FOR THE ASKIN,
sharon too, like for temperament and behavior problems like
INCONTINENCE from spaying / neutering malpractice?
Post by Sharon Too
and please know that ending a pet's suffering by
euthanasia is the kindest act of love you can give her.
"KINDEST"? That so, sharon too?

Perhaps you shouldn't LOVE so much?

HOWE MUCH do you GET PAID to murder non critically
ill dogs an kats when they ain't DYIN under anesthesia for
non medically necessary inapupriate surgical mutlations or
DYIN from your TOXIC pharmacutical malpractice treatments <{}: ~ ( >

HOWEDY sharon aka sharon too veterinary malpractice
office manager, mrs. veterinary malpracticioner, you
miserable lyin animal abusing punk thug coward fraud
active acute chronic long term incuarable mental case,
Post by Sharon Too
Post by Paul
Open the message, click on "Message" at the top of
your screen; scroll down and click on "Block Sender"
This will introduce you to the new readers:

Subject: EMERGENCY!! What to do with baby Possum?
From: Sharon
Date: Tues, May 16 2006 10:30 pm
Email: "Sharon" <***@nospamhotmail.com>
Groups: alt.med.veterinary, rec.animals.wildlife, rec.pets
Post by Sharon Too
My cat brought in a baby possum tonight.
My question is, should I just release it into the woods behind
my house tonight? I don't know if it will be okay, or if it still
needs its parents.
I could certainly feed it for a few days if necessary, but I'm
just not sure what would be best (or if it would even accept food
from me while in captivity).
Don't touch wildlife at all. They carry parasites and other
organisms. You should release it back into the woods, but if
your scent is on it, the mother (if she finds it) may reject
it. Your only other alternative is to look up a local wildlife
rehabilitator.

From: Jack Crenshaw -
Date: Thurs, Jun 1 2006 9:16 am
Post by Sharon Too
You should release it back into the woods, but if
your scent is on it, the mother (if she finds it)
may reject it. Your only other alternative is to
look up a local wildlife rehabilitator.
What you just said is such a fountain of misinformation
I hardly know where to begin. First, the scent thing:
It's an old wives' tale, and totally false. Second,
releasing a juvenile back to the wild is as good as a
death sentence.

The animal will not, repeat _WILL_ _NOT_ survive.

If you just want to kill the juvie, it would be
more humane to flush it down the toilet.

Your advice to contact a wildlife rehabber was a good one.
Your advice to release a juvenile back to the wild sucked
rocks. Your assertion that the mother would smell the human
scent on the baby and reject it was ridiculously wrong.

From: Sharon
Date: Tues, May 16 2006 10:30 pm
Email: "Sharon" <***@nospamhotmail.com>
Groups: alt.med.veterinary, rec.animals.wildlife, rec.pets

We'll have to disagree on most levels. As for surviving
alone in the wild, it's no more likely to sirvive *in
most cases* domestically. Most people don't know the
first thing about raising wildlife, thus my recommendation
to contact a wildlife rehabilitator.

-------------------------

You're a lyin animal murderin FRAUD an SCAM ARTIST.
Post by Sharon Too
And don't forget to block everyone who insists
on replying to his posts ad nauseum
AND THIS WILL IDENTIFY EXXXPOSE AND DISCREDIT
YOU
AS A LIAR A COWARD A ANIMAL MURDERIN
MENTAL CASE AND FRAUD
AND CRUCIFY YOU:

From: ***@webtv.net (***@webtv.net)
Subject: Re: My greyhound becoming bully of dogpark,help?
Date: 2004-01-07 01:15:04 PST
Post by Sharon Too
"If that don't work, check out some training books or look up
the "Puppy Wizard" for suggestions on controlling this."
Uh... since this was a response to my response I feel the need
to clarify my position. In no way would I recommend anyone pay
attention to Puppy Wizard.
-Sharon
What is wrong with "The Puppy Wizard"?

I know his posts are a little wacky but his sound distraction
technique has worked very well for me. After using traditional
training with mixed results, I was able to stop my dog from
jumping up, eating poop, begging from the table and
excessive barking using his methods.

Lolajoker.

--------------------------

ALL temperament and behavior problems and 90% of ALL
DIS-EASE are PREDICTABLE NORMAL NATURAL
INNATE INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE responses to situations
and circumstances of their environment which we create for
them, therefore they CAN BE CURED NEARLY INSTANTLY
simply by DOIN EVERYTHING EXXXACTLY PRECISELY
OPPOSITE of HOWE these pathetic miserable stinkin lyin
animal murderin active acute chronic life long punk thug coward
mental cases recommend.

LIKE THIS:

From: Sharon too
Date: Mon, Jun 13 2005 5:39 pm
Post by Sharon Too
Jerry, is there any particular section that addresses this?
I'm laughing picturing a friend to come over and throw a can
near me on the second and fourth command 'That's a good girl,
Robin, CONCENTRATE!' LOL.
This is obviously a request for a two person conversation. Since
99.999% of the people who post here have had or have been witness
to negative posts, hurtful posts and plain unprofessional posts
by this self professed professional, it would be to your advantage
to exchange private e-mails with him.

Your private discussion with him here will benefit no one.

-Sharon

--------------------

Subject: Cataracts

HOWEDY sharon aka sharon too, veterinary malpractice
office manager, mrs veterinary malpracticioner, animal
murderin lyin mental case,
Post by Sharon Too
Post by Paul
More importantly, why is everyone wasting so much time
on a troll, who cannot even respond decently to a mere question.
It's probably Jerry- the poopy whizzer.
But the spelling has improved so dramatically!!
Yeah. THAT'S probably on accHOWEN of HE was CITING
other posters CASE HISTORIES of CURING cataracts by using eucalyptus
honey as per Dr. Pitcairn's instructons. There's PLENTY
of CASE HISTORY DATA supporting the FACT that surgery
MIGHT NOT be necessary or advisable.

FurtherMOORE, the RESEARCH SEZ cortisone should
NOT be used for cataracts which the O.P. SEZ her vet had
been using on her dog <{): ~ ( >

LUCKY THING the vet referred him to HIS professional
FRIEND, the veterinary OPTHALMIC SURGEON, eh sharon?
Post by Sharon Too
Good point, though.
INDEEDY <{}: ~ ) >

Hey sharon? HOWE abHOWET that Opossum baby
you told the nice man who's kat SAVED IT to turn it
loose to DIE?:

HOWEDY Fred,
Post by Sharon Too
Hello,
My cat brought in a baby possum tonight.
That was kindly of him! You got yourself a RESCUE kat!
Post by Sharon Too
It is pretty small -- about twice the size of a chipmunk -
- but its eyes are open, so it's not a newborn.
Opossums should be ready for release at 20 to 22 weeks of age.
Post by Sharon Too
It really looks just like a miniature adult. It seems to
be in pretty good shape, considering I snapped it from the
jaws of death.
Thanks to your kat RESCUING him! GOOD JOB!
Give your kitty kat a nice tuna treat or play with him
with a feather or sumpthin, for that good deed!
Post by Sharon Too
It can climb and scamper around pretty well - no obvious wounds.
Good!
Post by Sharon Too
My question is, should I just release it
into the woods behind my house tonight?
You'll first have to get a guesstimate of his age.
Post by Sharon Too
I don't know if it will be okay, or if it still needs its parents.
8 - 13 weeks - Eyes open, teeth present but still small. Thicker
fur developing with guard hairs beginning to emerge by 13 weeks.
Body LESS THAN 6 inches long EXXXCLUDING TAIL <{); ~ ) >

"Opossums should be ready for release at 20 to 22 weeks of age."

Looks like you'll have him for a while...
Post by Sharon Too
I could certainly feed it for a few days if necessary,
Or a few weeks if you don't want to MURDER him as sharon
aka sharon too, veterinary malpractice office manager and
Mrs. veterinary malpracticioner advises you to do to the
LUCKY critter <{); ~ ) >
Post by Sharon Too
but I'm just not sure what would be best (or if it
would even accept food from me while in captivity).
If he's young enough he'll have no fear and will eat.
Post by Sharon Too
Any advice would be much appreciated.
Here's EVERYTHING you gotta know EXXXCEPT the
warnings abHOWET possible rabies etc that sharon was
kindly enough to insufficiently warn you abHOWET, stuff
like IF HE DIES SUDDENTLY or bites you and escape
better yourself AND rescue kitty kat to the HOWEspital or
get his body to the state laboratory for rabies testing.
Care and feeding: http://www.awrc.org/Baby%20Opossums.htm
Post by Sharon Too
Thanks,
Not so fast, you can TRAIN him JUST LIKE a dog or kitty!
Post by Sharon Too
Fred Mann
Thank you for not following sharon too's uncaring
self centered idiotic animal murderin advice <{); ~ ) >
Post by Sharon Too
-Sharon
Oh, bye the bye, you can't post here abHOWETS
nodoGdameneDMOORE you FRAUD an SCAM
ARTIST.

The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard <{); ~ ) >

Here sharon SNIPPED the part where Robin REPORTED
CURING her 12 year old dog's SEPARATION anXXXIHOWESNESS and told her
not to talk abHOWET her 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS here on The Freakin Simply
Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual Forums:

From: Robin
Date: Mon, Jun 13 2005 6:14 pm
Post by Sharon Too
This is obviously a request for a two person conversation.
<snipped>
Your private discussion with him here will benefit no one.
Who are you to judge the group benefit of the content
of my posts, or to dictate if I may post it, to Jerry
or anyone else?

Robin.

AND THEN she DONE IT AGAIN:

From: Sharon too
Date: Mon, Jun 13 2005 6:23 pm
Post by Sharon Too
Post by Paul
This is obviously a request for a two person conversation.
<snipped>
Post by Sharon Too
Post by Paul
Your private discussion with him here will benefit no one.
Who are you to judge the group benefit of the content of
my posts, or to dictate if I may post it, to Jerry or
anyone else?
Read the group. Google archives. By all means, if you are
seeking a professional opinion from this person you had
better check resources and references. Since he has tried
hundreds of times, if not more, over the years to insert
himself and his claims here at rec.pets.dogs.health, that
should be reference enough. Still want to follow his
convoluted advice?

Your risk.

As for judging the group, I was merely trying to give
you advice which was to take your questions to private
e-mail snce your request would get you nothing but
headaches from people who are constantly killfiling
Jerry, his new IDs and sockpuppets.

-Sharon

-----------

Robin REPORTED she CURED her 12 year old dog's
FEAR OF THUNDER and SEPARATION anXXXIHOWESNESS NEARLY INSANTLY.

And THAT'S HOWE COME only liars dog abusers cowards
and active acute chronic long term incurable mental
cases post here abHOWETS UNLESS it's to say "THANK
YOU The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey
Wizard, your FREE MANUAL SAVED MY DOG'S LIFE.
G-D BLESS YOU."

"Sharon" <***@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
news: 129umcv96eae__BEGIN_MASK_n#9g02mG7!__...__END_MASK_i?a63jfAD
Post by Sharon Too
At my wit's end, I found Jerry Howe's information on the
Internet, contacted him and read his manual. At this point
she is not cured, but by making a fuss over an inanimate
object when I leave, I can see progress in the area of
separation anxiety. I am using his manual to work on other
aspects of her behavior. I just want to say thanks so much
to Jerry for his manual, .....
Nesskay
Let me be the first:

<PLONK>

Fall in line, folks.

-------------------------
Post by Sharon Too
Post by Paul
Not to pick nits, but that stuff about talking to the toy
is - - for lack of a better word - - original, isn't it?
Yeah. The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard came up with
the idea while trainin a MENTAL PATIENT who's dog was havin
separation anXXXIHOWESNESS problems.

NON PHYSCIAL C-HOWENTER CONditioning aka The
Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard's Surrogate Toy
Separation AnXXXIHOWESNESS / Bed Time Calming /
Fear Of Thunder / Car Sickness / Submissive Urination /
Obsessive Compulsive Masturbation / Chronic Urinary
Tract / Bladder / Irritable BHOWEL / Obsessive Compulsive
Marking / Self Mutilation / Spraying / Defecating Syndrome
Technique works JUST LIKE FREAKIN MAGICK for LOTS
of CONditions <{); ~ ) >
Post by Sharon Too
Post by Paul
I can't recall reading/hearing it anywhere else.
Of curse you can. You've READ IT in DOZENS of CASE
HISTORY REPORTS from The Freakin Simply Amazing
Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual Student from ALL OVER The
WHOWEL WILD WORLD which you call STUPIDLAND
whom you call SELFISH INCONSIDERATE DIMWITS
and LIARS.

LIKE THIS:

Date: 2001-11-14 09:13:21 PST
Post by Sharon Too
Hi!
I have downloaded Wit's End Dog Training Method...
In there there is that trick with a toy about
"Separation anxiety surrogate toy technique."
Anybody has tried that... I would like to give it
a try with my GSP (German shorthair.....pointer)
Comments? Yves Dussault
Yves,

I for one have tried it... in fact I use this all the time.
I just used it last evening while my husband and I went out
to see "The Mummy Returns" (a horrible turkey of a movie,
but at least the house wasn't chewed from end to end in the
meantime).

Yes, it really works. :-) So do the other
distraction/praise techniques described therein.

If you are interested in the manual, you will
probably want to begin the exercises as well.

Regards,
Lisa
-------------

AND LIKE THIS:

"nesskay" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:***@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

It has been a couple of months since we have initiated Jerry Howe's
recommendations for resolving the separation anxiety in our 8 y.o.
chocolate lab.

We have seen remarkable results.

She can now be left on our houseboat and we can return with
all of the wood trim and/or blinds intact. Before we spoke with
Jerry and started the training, we could not leave her without
her barking in a high pitch incessantly.

I had resorted to "building her a pen" with pieces of chair railing,
putting chairs in front of windows, and moving the bed so that she
could not get to the blind (again!). It would take about 10-15
minutes of planning and moving things before we could leave.

Even with that, she would find something to destroy. We NOW
use the surrogate toy method and can go out, shop, go to dinner
or whatever, without any problems.

She is glad to see us when we return, but no longer frantic.

I am so happy that this seems to be the norm now.

Another problem that we had with her was although she would
not destroy the house, she would leave us runny poop in several
places.(kind of the same as destroy I guess). I tried to blame this
on her diet, but realized that her anxiety level was so high that
she just had no control. Now, the only time that she has done
that is when she devoured a diaper from the trash!!!

Jerry's methods work. I found him by typing in separation
anxiety+orlando florida into Google, otherwise I don't want
to speculate what could have happened with Amelia.

We were at our Wit's End!!!!!! Thanks so much Jerry.
We have given your URL to everyone we know with a dog.

Your methods work. The others that we tried did not.

It is that simple!

Thank you, Thank you Thank you!
Nancy and Amelia

----------

Here's a few other MENTAL CASES who'll lie an
blow smoke up HOWER arses if you let them:

Thurs,Jun 16 2005 4:17 am
Subject: Re: Puppy Wizard - Report, Day Two

HOWEDY malinda,
Post by Sharon Too
[nothing of value]
"Success!" is what Robin wrote, malinda.

Robin wrote that she CURED her 12 year old dogs
separation anXXXIHOWESNESS NEARLY INSTANTLY
using her FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual <{);~ ) >
Post by Sharon Too
jeebus but you're a selfish, inconsiderate dimwit.
That so? Didn't you want to know HOWE she done it, malinda?
Post by Sharon Too
Plonk.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHH­AHAAAA!!!
Post by Sharon Too
--
Melinda Shore - Software
From: YourConscience
Date: Thurs, Jun 16 2005 12:02 pm
Email: "YourConscience"

Here's someMOORE "DEEPLY UNCOOL"
from malinda's PERSONAL REAL LIFE
POSTED CASE HISTORY:

Subject: semi OT- water dish
From: Melinda Shore
Post by Sharon Too
They're heavy when full and they're one of the few
things that Eclipse hasn't seen fit to relocate within
the house
Well HOWE COME would she WANT to what with all the
other GOOD STUFF you provide for her to play with?
Post by Sharon Too
(last week I found a lightbulb in her crate,
Like THAT for EXXXAMPLE. NHOWE THAT'S
CREATIVITY. You should encourage your dogs to
do more play / learnin / trainin activities. Dogs are
like wet sponges, don't you know!

HOWEver, The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard
can't think of ANYTHING MOORE DANGERHOWES
for a doggy to PLAY with, malinda. Perhaps you should
offer her an alternate?

Try TRADING UP for sumpthin of higher value. Perhaps
you can offer to let her make her own choice of say, ANY
TWO items from your bedroom in EXXXCHANGE?

BWEEEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA!!!
Post by Sharon Too
for pete's sake -
Ahhh, yes, Pete. That's Laura's dog you was tellin abHOWET
HOWE to post through The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Manual Forums <{): ~ ) >
Post by Sharon Too
I have no idea where she got it from).
Perhaps she got it from your bedroom, malinda?:

Loading Image...

You might wanna ask janet or matty HOWE to manage
and supervise your doggys so they won't steal STUFF
from your garbage?
Post by Sharon Too
I think it would be kind of an effort
to tip one of those over.
You mean instead of just trainin them not to do it?

--------------

And here's yet a OTHER LYIN ANIMAL ABUSIN MENTAL CASE:

HOWEDY matty,
Post by Sharon Too
Post by Paul
Jerry, you give the lying dog abusing punk thug coward
mental cases too much credit for the ability to influence
Naaah, The Amazing Puppy Wizard was just BAITING these lying
dog abusing punk thug coward mental cases again <{); ~ ) >
Post by Sharon Too
You really are a piece of work.
INDEEDY, matty. Robin studied and followed the INSTRUCTIONS
in her FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual and REPORTED
her 100% NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS RIGHT HERE on The
Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual Forums And SCHOOL Of HARD KNOCKS
And HUMAN And ANIMAL BEHAVIOR RESEARCH
LABORATORIES, matty <{); ~ ) >

You're settin in it <{); ~ ) >
Post by Sharon Too
Keep this out of the health groups, 'kay?
Dogs DIE from separation anXXXIHOWESNESS, matty, JUST
LIKE HOWE your own DEATHLY ILL dog Rocky is DYIN from
STRESS INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE DIS-EASE aka The Puppy
Wizard's SYNDROME, on accHOWENT of you're a lyin dog abusin
punk thug coward MENTAL CASE, matty, and you can't post here
abHOWETS nodoGgamenedMOORE <{); ~ ) >
Post by Sharon Too
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
IN FACT, Robin followed up on her original 100% NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL REPORT with a other WON,
matty. PERHAPS you'd like to READ IT?
Post by Sharon Too
Thanks!
You're welcome:

Chris Williams writes:

"The FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method manual
I do find valuable. Much of it I recognize as what
I've always done without thinking of it as "training".
New stuff, I've used. His anchoring technique erased
the last of Mac's fireworks trauma,"

-----------

From: Hoku Beltz
To: The Puppy Wizard
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 6:12 PM
Subject: Mahalo

Aloha Jerry,

Just wanted to let you know that the surrogate toy
technique is working wonders. I have not had a
shredded sheet for over a week now. It is nice
to be able to leave the bed made and come home
to a made bed.

Your program is awesome, but you already know
that. Keep up the good work!

Hoku

-------------

Dave Cohen <***@total.net writes:
Re: Barking Deterrants Needed...

Hi.

Please understand that I do not know Jerry and have
spoken with him briefly once by email.

I have no stake or interest in the success of his business.
I simply want to thank him publicly for one of his tips, with
regards to separation anxiety.

I thought it seemed far fetched to praise a stuffed animal
and then say good bye to my own dog, but I am usually a
very open minded person, so I tried it. Well, lo and behold-
the damn trick worked!

I think Jerry has some intriguing techniques, and
personally I think everyone who constantly criticizes
him is not understanding his logic.

Thank you Jerry!

----------------

"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
Dealing With This (Destructive Separation
Anxiety). I've Suggested It To Quite A Few
Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY TIME
The Very First Time' - marilyn, Professional
Trainer, 33 Years Experience.

-------------

Subject: To Jerry
1 From: MarilynRammell
Date: Tues, Aug 3 1999 3:00 am
Email: "MarilynRammell" <***@hotmail.com>

Hello Jerry,

A client of mine asked to say a 'big thank you' to you.
They have a 8 month spaniel that they were about to get
rid of.

In fact they had put her into kennels for a few day while
they 'thought it through'. They rang me the day before
they were due to collect her.

She had wrecked their home - everytime they left her she
destroyed something else. The walls, the cabinets, the
carpets, table legs, chair legs, - anything and everything.

They collected her and brought her to me. I gave them some
routine training exercises, and also I wrote out your advice
(I will say at this point that I was not sure about it at all,
and felt a little embarrassed - it was the advice about the
'toy dog that gets the praise for not making a mess'.

Anyway, this was 11 days ago and I heard nothing. Yesterday
they turned up at the new Monday evening class. They were
absolutely delighted.

They told me that after just one attempt, (your toy suggestion)
she 'stopped all the destruction'. They were in tear of happiness
while telling me.

Thank you Jerry.
Respectfully,
Marilyn

----------------

From: Marilyn Rammell (marilynramm...@
Subject: Re: Separation anxiety (?) help needed!
Date: 1999/10/13

Hi Steve,

Just want to second Jerry's method for dealing with this -
I've suggested it to quite a few clients now and it's worked
'every' time.

It sounds a little 'amusing' I agree, but it really works.

Two of the occasions it's worked have been when the
owners were almost at the point of giving up (one had
actually put their dog into kennels for a few days so
that they could re-decorate the demolition done by the dog).

They rang me while the dog was still in kennels and were
not yet decided whether to collect the dog or not.

The very first time they tried Jerry's method, it worked.

Best of luck,
Marilyn Rammell

=============

From: ***@claque.net
Date: 22 Jul 2005 13:13:04 -0700
Subject: Re: For Handsome Jack Morrison:
Collars - belated reply
Post by Sharon Too
Post by Paul
you're being disingenuous. i have no desire to
train my dog not to raid the trash or counter surf.
i've no doubt i could train her not to do either,
but i simply don't care enough to be bothered. so,
what, exactly, is your point?
?
Post by Sharon Too
I do have a desire to have my dogs not raid the trash or
counter surf, and guess what? They don't. Being dogs,
however, they had to learn.
But you have no desire to train your dogs not to
ruin your bedroom in your absence, obviously.

http://www.employees.org/~shore/trashedbedroom2.jpg

It's what the trained dogs of our friend Melinda
have done, when left alone at home.

Lucy.

----------

From: "LESPERANCE/DEAKIN" <***@total.net>
Date: 1999/10/06
Subject: Re: Separation Anxiety

Well Jerry, I have to hand it to you. It worked!

Our dog was very well behaved until I had to go on the
road for my work this summer. I was gone twice for 10
long days each time. Although there were still people
home, I am the "primary care-giver" to my dog, so he
became destructive (shoes, books, rugs, papers etc)

We have a crate, but I believe it is too small for him
now - he is a cross golden/gsd and when he sits or stands
he cannot hold his head up as the top is too low, so I
didn't want to crate him while I went to work for sometimes
8 hours.

Anyway, I decided to try your method with the toy.

I would find a toy, tell it to be good and place it in
his crate. After just 3 days, there was no more destruction
in the house - even when daughter or hubby forgot to put
their shoes away! Now the toy stays in the crate all day,
and he even crawls in to be with the "good toy" when I leave.

He seems quite proud when we come home.

I have not tried the can thing - don't quite understand
that, so I think my dog may be confused too!

Marcie (Winslow's mom)

------------------

AND LIKE THIS:

"Anthony Testa" <testa52> wrote in message

We came home to almost $1,000 in damage.
Furniture, the blinds were all chewed and torn
down, etc. The next day we put her in the crate
again. This time we came home to a nice 2' x 3'
hole in our carpet in the middle of the living room,
right down to the cement.

I told my wife that we cannot afford to keep this dog.
We should go out and get a puppy.

<SNIP>

First, at no cost he sent us his manual. We started
doing exactly what he said to do in the manual.

Exactly as we did was was written, the results were
exactly as he said it would be. Then we purchased
the DDR.

This is an amazing god send to us.

First of all, Jerry sent it to us without paying. (thanks
for that gesture) This has such and AMAZING effect.
This testimonial is kind of winded so I will say this......

Jerry's product literally saved this dogs life.

Angel can be left alone during the day. NO CRATE. The
dog shows absolutely no sign of anxiety at all. Jerry
told us the product works immediately and it did! She
does not bark at all during the day except when the
mailman drops mail into the slot on the door.

The manual for training works exactly as it says!

<SNIP>

Jerry, after reading some of the threads in the news
group, I can't for the life of me understand why this
many people are so dang blind or ignorant.

You just keep plugging away at what you do, because
you my friend are a life saver!!!

Anytime you need someone to speak about the results
of your product, you have my number. We would galdly
talk to them.

Thank you very much for all your help.

God bless you...
Anthony & Linda Testa
Jacksonville, Florida

----------

From: AIMEE (***@yahoo.com)
Subject: House training and such...
Date: 2003-10-08 16:18:56 PST

I've been having a problem with my dog, Axel,
relieving himself in the house while I'm away
from home.

I've used TPW method's, and yesterday I was out
for 12 hours, and Axel didn't have one single "accident".

Today, I had hoped that the results would be just as
good - and they were (I was out for 11 hours).

The problem began when, as a puppy, Axel would
relieve himself in the house and I would point
at the mess and tell him "NO" or "Bad Dog".

That made him afraid to relieve himself in the
house or infront of me.

After I got TPW's training manual, I corrected my
mishandling of these instances.

When I came home to an "accident", I would simply
drop a can near the area and ask Axel "What's that?"
Then I would clean it up - with out showing him I was
the least bit upset about the mess, and when he looked
at the spot I would tell him "Good boy, you're a good dog".

This has been an ongoing problem, and thanks to the
Puppy Wizard, we've finally got it taken care of...

Also, Axel LOVES the cat's litter box...He enjoys the
"snacks" he can find in there...I followed TPW's methods
by alternating sounds and praising him while or before
he sticks his nose in it, and today, he's been going into
the room with the cat box and barking. That's because
he's thinking about getting into the box, but he knows he
shouldn't.

Thank you, Jerry, for all you help.

You've been a blessing to all of us.

AIMEE

-----------------------

From: AIMEE (***@yahoo.com):

I own a black an tan coonhound. We got him
as a puppy, and due to constant mishandling
(pulling on his lead, negative corrections, and
the occasional use of a bark collar) I ended
up with a very anxious dog.

I couldn't leave him home alone, I couldn't
crate him, I couldn't even take my dog for
walks because he feared EVERYTHING.

I was going to have to get rid of him if things
didn't turn around.

My husband and I searched the internet for
answers - AND WE FOUND THE PUPPY WIZARD.

For all of you disbeliveers out there HIS METHODS WORK!

I've followed his manual, and we now have a
dog that can be left home alone, that heels
on command, that can go outside and NOT
be afraid of everything he sees.

Not only have his methods helped our dog, but
our marriage has gotten better. We had fallen
into a rut - constant bickering and tension, we
never laughed or had FUN together - but now,
with the same mindset used in THE PUPPY
WIZARDS dog training, our communications
channels have opened, and we now work
together instead of against one another.

For all the "Literalists" out there, NO WE DID
NOT TEACH EACH OTHER TO SIT, STAY,
OR HEEL.

We simply eliminated the nagging and the acting out to get
NEGATIVE attention from one another since we weren't getting
the POSITIVE attention we wanted.

So, it's been proven - THE PUPPY WIZARDS METHODS WORK.

It's up to you to accept them. Yes, there's alot of blame that we
have to accept, but once we realize that we've caused these
problems to arise, we can strive to make things better.

AIMEE

=============

<SNIP DOZENS MORE CASE HISTORIES>

HOWEDY Bob,
Post by Sharon Too
I have an 11 year old sharpei who vet says is getting arthritis.
She is now taking rimadyl which seems to help but is rather
expensive.
Rimadyl is DEATHLY to some dogs. It should ONLY
be used for DEATHLY ILL dogs, dogs who would be
MURDERED *(like perry recently MURDERED her
own dog because of their PAIN), could have a few years
of additional PAIN FREE life.
Post by Sharon Too
I have heard that the over the counter pills, osteo bi-flex,
which of course is for humans, also helps in animals.
Of curse. There AIN'T NO REASON to suffer with arthritis pain.
Post by Sharon Too
Has anyone here had any experience with this.
BWEEEAAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

Here's perry MURDERIN her dog for a BEHAVIOR
Post by Sharon Too
Well, now that I've finished and sold the house I was renovating
(it was shown 68 times in 3 weeks)...I can start focusing back
on my home life, family and dogs.
Lucee is cause for concern. She's the 14 yo Rat Terrier. She's not
friendly, she's not outgoing and never has been. She's a GOOD dog.
In fact, her whole life she worried herself sick that she had to be a
good dog.
To the point that you could tell that she just couldn't relax ever.
Well, with her aging problems and failing eyesight and because
I'm home now 24/7, I see more degeneration.
I don't know exactly physically what's going on with her, and as
I've stated before, I'm not willing to invest a lot of vet money in
finding out what I don't expect to cure. She has lots of "lumps".
In fact, we call her our limpy, lumpy dog. (Of course, arthritis has
its hold on her, and I can tell that distresses her, she used to boing
boing and jump up down and even up in to my arms so I didn't have
to pick her up.) Some of the lumps feel like fatty deposits, they're
soft and squishy. But she has a couple that are in the lower spine
and kidney area. I suspect some sort of malignancy.
Her appetite is good, but she is losing a bit of weight. Her coat
is healthy, not as thick, but not dry and scaly. She drinks constantly
and pees just as much, but can hold her bladder and ask to go outside.
The vet says (guessing) he thinks it's some sort of diabetes. I'm not
so sure about that. Her eyesight is poor. Cataracts. Poor thing,
running up stairs, misses steps and slams her self into them, and I
know she clobbers herself pretty hard.
And lately a needy, panicky kind of dementia. It's a particular
kind of anxiety that I saw in my dad (who recently died, he had
severe dementia)
Dementia runs in families...
Post by Sharon Too
and I see the same mannerisms, the same blank, scared look
in her eyes. I see her upset at herself for her failings. I don't
know if her mental anguish is greater than her physical pain.
Or if I'm qualified enough to evaluate that. I've always said
that I'd put her down when she got too uncomfortable.
I am wondering if her emotional turmoil is considered painful.
I honestly don't think she'll make it much past the winter, being
viable. The cold already looks as if it's hard on her. She is not
my heart dog, but still has been a valuable part of my life and
my companion for a looooong time.
I don't want to deprive her of anything..but it appears
that she's only getting more distressed.
Perry
-----------------------

And then she murdered her dog.
Post by Sharon Too
Have not asked the vet, figure he'll want me to keep buying
the rimadyl, which I will if theres no other choice.
Your vet don't want you to CURE your dog's DIS-EASE.
Post by Sharon Too
Thanks for any advise.
HOWEDY The,

Catchy name, ain't it.
Post by Sharon Too
I have a 13 year old cocker spaniel who is
apparantly developing arthritis.
No he ain't. There AIN'T NO SUCH THING as "arthritis".

So called "ARTHRITIS" is a REACTON to poor diet, toxins and STRESS.
Post by Sharon Too
He is in pain, and when he walks you can hear "snapping" and
"cracking". When he sits down I can also feel this cracking when
I have my hand on his backside.
There's LOTS of STUFF you can do to reverse
this so called ARTHRITIS.
Post by Sharon Too
The vet prescribed him Rimadyl
Rimadyl is DEATHLY POISON.
Post by Sharon Too
and I have had him on that for a few days
Perhaps you should STOP givin him that
crap an find a new veterinarian?
Post by Sharon Too
and he seems to be doing much better in terms of not being in pain,
That's irrelevent.
Post by Sharon Too
but I can still hear and feel the crackling.
That's nutritional.
Post by Sharon Too
Is there anything I can give him that will coat
his joints to alleviate the crackling joints?
There's many products which may heelp. Glucosamine and
Condroiton, vitamin C and the products discussed by the
Post by Sharon Too
Please let me know what I can give him or feed
him to help. He wieghs 33 lbs.
From The Annals Of Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_
Forensic_Sciences_
Research_Laboratory

Subject: My Dog and His Leg

Date: Thurs, Jun 8 2006 10:28 pm

HOWEDY Romanian,

WELCOME to The Simply Amazing Grand Puppy WIzard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Forums.

I'm Jerry Howe, The Simply Amazing Grand Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >

Here's your own FREE COPY of The Simply Amazing Grand Puppy Wizard's

*666* Edition Of Your Own
FREE COPY
Of
The Simply Amazing Grand Puppy Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual <{) ; ~ ) >
Post by Sharon Too
Hello everyone,
You mean 'HOWEDY Miserable Gang Of Lyin Dog
Abusing Punk Thug Cowards, Frauds And Active Acute
Chronic Long Term Incurable Mental Cases".
Post by Sharon Too
my dog seems to have hurt his leg, not but 30 minutes
ago. He cannot sit, and is very tired and exhausted,
and cannot rest.
The Simply Amazing Grand Puppy Wizard is NOT a
veterinarian, HE only IDENTIFIES EXXXPOSES and
DISCREDITS incompetent greedy ill trained ignorameHOWES
veterinary malpracticioners <{); ~ ) >
Post by Sharon Too
This is the first time he has ever injured himself.
HOWE did he get hurt?
Post by Sharon Too
I tried adding on extra padding on the floor (he stays
in the garage), but he still cannot sit, even with my
bed pillows! I gave him some ibuprofen, but I am not
sure if this is helpful.
Perhaps a massage / ice pack will heelp? Ibuprofen can KILL
your dog just as fast as HOWER veterinary malpracticioners
and their flunky medical mental case pals here abHOWETS:

From: ophinea
Date: Thurs, Aug 28 2003 9:11 am
Email: "ophinea" <***@noxzoominternetnox.net>
Groups: alt.med.veterinary
Post by Sharon Too
Post by Paul
The vet gave me a bottle of Rimadyl which I try to use
sparingly since Spike off with a 1/2 tsp of children's
Advil which seems to help. I took him in to a new vet
yesterday and she told me that he definitely needs to
have both legs operated on again.
One note on the Advil... if you have not been advised to
give this by your veterinarian, please stop giving it and
inquire with your vet!
<snip of some much appreciated additional information>

When I called the vet to state my concerns about Spike's
current condition a few days after surgery, it was the
operating vet who recommended I give him the ibuprofen.

======================

Ibuprofen is DEATHLY TOXIC to dogs!

From: Sarchann
Date: Sat, Sep 28 1996 12:00 am
Email: ***@aol.com (Sarchann)
Groups: rec.pets.dogs.health

Ibuprofen DOES work for arthritis--my wolf/shepherd
12 yr old female is dysplastic, and if she gets really bad
the stuff helps her a great deal. Per my vet, it works best
on a regular program, where it has time to get into the
system and build up a residual. I don't know about liver
damage (never heard that one)

BUT-- make sure you give it with food.

It can cause stomach bleeding!

It happened with Amber, but we then made sure to give it
with food (she loves yogurt), and we haven't had any problems
since.

***@aol.com (Susan Archangeli)

From: Candace Weylandt
Date: Wed, Jan 9 1991 6:26 pm
Email: ***@bcm.tmc.edu (Candace Weylandt)
Groups: rec.pets.dogs

When I had my dog spayed about four months ago, she
experienced some discomfort to the point that she was
not able to sleep.

When I called the vet, he recommended that I give her
half of a Children's Tylenol to ease the discomfort.

----------

Tylenol is DEATHLY TOXIC to dogs!

So you see, Romanian, even the EXXXPERT veterinary
malpracticioners DON'T KNOW HOWE to pupperly treat
dogs. After you get her DIAGNOSED you might want to
try Glucosamine AND Condroiton despite that your
veterinary MALPRACTICIONER will probably TRY to
CONvince you IT DON'T WORK and INSETAD, TRY
to SELL you his prescription pharmacutical Rimadyl or
Metacam which KILLS DOGS.

Also, there's another MIRACLE drug in the information
below which these MENTAL CASES have tried to DISCREDIT.
Post by Sharon Too
He yelps in pain whenever I try to lie him down, legs
up so he will not hurt them. What can I do to help him?
Got any NARCOTICS? They're SAFE and EFFECTIVE.
Post by Sharon Too
Are there any other medicines I can give him?
Maybe asprin?
Post by Sharon Too
Also: it does not hurt his leg (hind left leg) when I
touch it, only when I try to pull it out. I am afraid
it may be a tendon. He is a 10 month old white german
shepherd, so you can imagine how active he is and how
sad he is that he cannot be like that now.
It's PROBABLY a damaged cruciate ligament. It's the #1
surgery in the United States other than unnecessary inapupriate
surgical sexual mutilations, snd it's CAUSED BY STRESS
from MISHANDLING and commercial garbage diets and
SURGICAL SEXUAL MUTILATION and is 100%
PREVENTABLE and can PROBABLY be HEELED
witHOWET surgery.

But your veterinarian will PROBABLY
NOT advise you abHOWET THAT.
Post by Sharon Too
Please help!
You AIN'T gonna be gettin nodoGdameneD advice
from these self serving active acute chronic long term
incurable mental cases:

From The Annals Of Human_And_Animal_Behavior_
Forensic_Sciences_
Research_Laboratory

From: Ceallach
Date: Sat, Jan 5 2002 5:42 pm
Email: "Ceallach" <***@spamsucks.yahoo.com>

Hi Patricia:

Hang in there. Maybe he'll be one of the lucky
ones and it will heal on its own. One of my
friend's dog had a partial tear and her vet
recommended rest for a month and then a recheck.

At the recheck the dog was given full rein
to be her normal self. So it does happen.

-------------

From: Jim
Date: Sat, Jan 5 2002 6:50 pm
Email: "Jim" <***@attbi.com>

Our lab had a problem with a ligament in one of her
legs. The vet had us put listerne (sp) on it twice
a day. Took about two months but she is fine and
running like normal. We did not have to keep her
quiet during this time either.

Jim
--------------

From: rob
Date: Sat, Jan 5 2002 11:37 am
Email: rob <***@somewhere.uk>

Max tore ligaments in his front paw this summer.
Loading Image...

After two weeks of short walks, the vet unexpectedly
gave him the all-clear when he was supposed to get
the bandage changed. I was told to keep his exercise
to a minimum for another week.

The affected 'toe' still sticks out compared to the other
foot, but other than that he's back to his old self.

Max didn't need surgery. He had an xray that showed he'd
torn ligaments between two toes. The vet said that only
rest and support would be needed. The vet suspected a
broken bone but the xray proved otherwise.

----------------

"Rosa" <***@think.so> wrote in message news:lqdCc.2598$***@reader1.news.jippii.net...

Hi

My 2y old 25kg intact male has hurt his knee about
2 months ago.

The menisc in his right knee is broken. The vet
recommended we wait and see, said it can sometimes
get better by itself.

-------------

From: Patricia Gnecco
Date: Sat, Jan 5 2002 11:06 am
Email: "Patricia Gnecco" <***@oilmim>

Just to share with you guys this sad news. Milo got
very excited the day of the snow storm, he ran like
a nut around and around. All of a sudden he went
chasing a cat and of course he didn't catch the cat,
however seems he got his back left knee hurt.

He was limping badly and yesterday we went to see the
vet. She said they have to do x-rays (ligaments??) on
Monday and then from there they would tell us if he
needs surgery. Ay.

And then the recovery is SIX MONTHS!! Milo goes to a
park 2 times a day, sometimes 3. He has changed into
a calm and very easy going puppy since we moved here
and go to this park. He also is in great shape, he
is all muscles, he can run fast and he can play soccer
pretty well.

What am I going to do? It is going to change our lives,
but we both need the exercise. He weighs 95 pounds and
is in excellent health, other than this.

The vet confirmed he doesn't have Mange, thank God.
Right now he is pushing my elbow with his head so I
go and be with him.

Please pray so he doesn't have to go to surgery.
Thanks for any advice on how to distract him inside.
I can always teach chess, but I don't like it very much.

Patricia

===========

Subject: torn ACL

HOWEDY sharon aka sharon too veterinary malpractice office
manager, mrs. veterinary malpracticioner, liar, dog abusing
punk thug coward and active acute chronic long term incurable
mental case and professional veterinary client obsfucationist,
Post by Sharon Too
Post by Paul
AH! My 2 year old pit tore his ACL yesterday. my vet
said i should visit an orthopedic specialist for surgery,
Yeah. They're as thick as thieves, eh sharon aka sharon too,
veterinary malpractice office manager and mrs. veterinary
malpracticioner and veterinary malpractice apologist /
obsfucationist <{) ; ~ ) >
Post by Sharon Too
Post by Paul
and i have been researching, and there are some other
options. the vet also gave me Rimadyl for anitinflamatory
and pain.. but have been reading about the bad side effects
of this drug and am considering taking him off of it.
any help or advice??
BWEEEAHAHAHAHHAHHAAAA!!!
Post by Sharon Too
Post by Paul
has anyone else experienced a dog with a torn ACL before?
Yeah. Many of the dog lovers here abHOWETS got the same problem.
Post by Sharon Too
Post by Paul
please let me know, thank you, Kelly.. and Jake.
Torn ACLs are CAUSED BY STRESS from MISHANDLING.
Post by Sharon Too
Torn ACLs don't heal on their own
Sez YOU.

Below you'll find five CASE HISTORIES stating EXXXACTLY
PRECISELY OPPOSITE of what you sez. You're in the BUSINESS
of misleadin veterinary clients to increase profits through
unnecessary
inapupriate dangerHOWES surgical mutilations and pharmacutical
company scam drugs which comprise 50% of your unethickal profits.

You sound sincere and caring but you AIN'T NUTHIN but a
goddamened liar, fraud, thief, animal abuser and murderer and
professional apologist. THAT'S HOWE COME you manage
your veterinry malpracticioner husband's veterinary malpractice.
Post by Sharon Too
and the longer you wait, the more the dog will start over
relying on the other leg and put it at risk for joint disease
That's sheer idiocy. HOWE COME we don't see the same
"phenomenon" in three legged dogs, sharon aka sharon
too, veterinary malpractice apologist / obsfucationinst?

YOU'RE A LIAR.

ACL DIS-EASE is the #1 surgical mutilation in the USA after
unnecessary inapupriate surgical sexual mutilations. The ACL
tear / rupture is an EMOTIONAL STRESS INDUCED AUTO-
IMMUNE DIS-EASE CAUSED BY your veterinary malpractice
and "traditional" training and handling as recommended by your
veterinary malpractice.
Post by Sharon Too
and possibly another torn ACL.
IN MOST CASES the other leg FAILS for the SAME REASON
the first leg failed. Dogs are NATURAL ATHLETES sharon
too, veterinary malpractice office manager and veterinary
malpractice apologist and mrs. veterinary malpracticioner.

THERE AIN'T NO REASON HOWE COME a dog engaging
in normal activities should become CRIPPLED OTHER THAN
IATROGENIC ASSAULT including garbage commercial diets
recommended by the client's veterinary malpracticioner.
Post by Sharon Too
As for the Rimadyl,
"Also, these Vets receive perks from the drug manufacturer
Pfizer when they buy Rimadyl to sell to animal owners. Vets
could get points from Pfizer for each Rimadyl purchase they
made; points were redeemable for PalmPilots, Zip Drives, and
other equiptment!"

Date: Mar 14 2000

Since Rimadyl's 1997 launch, the FDA has received reports of
about 1,000 dogs that died or were put to sleep and 7,000 more
that had bad reactions after taking the drug, records and official
estimates indicate.

The FDA says such events are significantly underreported.

-----------

From The Annals Of Animal Behavior Forensic Sciences
Research Laboratory

Subject: Rimadyl poisoning--again

From: Jaimie
Date: Wed, Apr 1 1998 12:00 am
Email: ***@earthlink.net (Jaimie)

My 9 year old female Samoyed was put on the poison
Rimadyl for about 2 weeks for arthritic knee. I read
posts to this group discussing the horrors of the drug.

She was in such pain, I decided to give her a few more
dosages. I should have listened to you wise posters.

For three days my dog had weird yellow urine and yesterday
and today wouldn't eat. I took her to the vet and found out
she now has liver damage and will be in the hospital for as
long as it takes to reverse the damage--IF they are able to.

Cady, our Sammy, was a pretty healthy dog until the Rimadyl.

Now she's on the critical list. The makers of Rimadyl should
be put out of business. They are marketing poison and should
be forced to take it themselves.

Jaimie

--------------

From: LuSwinton
Date: Wed, Apr 1 1998 12:00 am
Email: ***@aol.com (LuSwinton)

Jamie: I know what you are going through - I have been there!

His name was George - he was on Rimadyl less than
30 days before his collapse and subsequent death.

Make up your own minds about this drug. I would
never use it for any of my animals again, ever!

Please let me know how you dog is doing ! I pray he does
not die like my dog (a chocolate lab, named George) did.

I am praying for the safe recovery of your dog.

Most Sincerely,

Jean Townsend
Johns Island, SC

------------

From: coloredhead
Date: Sun, Apr 5 1998

There are too many people who have lost pets to Rimadyl,
myself included, for you to defend in ANY way the drug
company who produces it!

I challenge you to have the same feelings about
Rimadyl once you have suffered a loss because of it.

Our dog died an agonizing death, and I wouldn't
wish it on _any_ other dog.

One more condescending reply to this newsgroup from
you and I will puke all over my keyboard!!!!!

----------

From: Bados
Date: Wed, Apr 8 1998

I wasn't able to save my labrador, Bados, who
died BEFORE Pfizer publicly acknowledged the
serious side effects.

Perhaps I can save someone elses.

Nancy Carr
New Jersey

-------------

From: Mishelle Fresener
Date: Tues, Apr 7 1998 12:00 am
Email: Mishelle Fresener <***@usscreen.com>

My dog died due to Rimadyl (at least I believe she did)

-----------

From: Pluffmud97 -

Date: Sat, Apr 4 1998 12:00 am
Email: ***@aol.com (Pluffmud97)

I sincerely hope your dog will survive. This drug
has been on the market for over a year now - the
Pfizer Co. that makes this drug has been allowing the
deaths of hundreds of dogs to occur because they will
not make public the many serious and deadly side effects.

The drug was never tested properly - it was not tested
long enough - the dosage prescribed in the U.S. is higher
than that prescribed in England where Rimadyl has been
used for a much longer time.

There are many people who have owned older dogs and
put them on Rimadyl as a last resort to help ease the pain
of arthritis. When the poor dog dies, does the owner
question the use of Rimadyl?

Probably not. They just think their dog died of old age.

Pfizer does not care - they care about the money they make
from the drug! Vets don't care - they care about keeping
the drug manufacturers happy and looking out for each other.

The drug reps don't care - they tell the vets what the
vets want to hear so the vets will buy the drugs that
they sell at an incredible markup

Only the dogs suffer - if your dog is on Rimadyl you had
better make your vet do blood workups, etc. - or your dog
may join the other poor animals who have suffered liver
problems, severe hemorrhaging, perforate ulcers and god
knows what other effects from this drug.

========

Subject: RIMADYL - LACK OF INFORMATION FROM
PFIZER AND ALL DOGS CAN BE AFFECTED SEVERELY.

From: Jason J Hamilton (***@stargate.net) Subject:
Arthritis Drug "Rimadyl" Kills Dogs! Please read on ...
Date: 2000/03/13

Read the article on the front page of today's Wall Street
Journal. It states that Rimadyl is toxic and creates deadly
liver complications in dogs. Vets new this as early as 1998
as have not properly informed dog owners.

My Golden just died of Liver Cancer and he was on a strong
dose of Rimadyl.

Please warn owners and friends of these risks. Vets are
supposed to warn owners of the side-effects but they have not!

My former vet (Bradford Hills Vet in Pittsburgh PA)
certtainly did not! They stated that Rimadyl was like a
prescription aspirin and handed me a bottle for my dog's
first treatment. I would not have treated my dog had I
known otherwise.

Also, these Vets receive perks from the drug manufacturer
Pfizer when they buy Rimadyl to sell to animal owners. Vets
could get points from Pfizer for each Rimadyl purchase they
made; points were redeemable for PalmPilots, Zip Drives, and
other equiptment!

Please reference today's Wall Street Journal for additional
details, and please, pass this information on to other animal
owners.

Thank you. Jason Hamilton

Post Script: Rimadyl is a frequently prescribed anti-
inflammatory used to treat dogs with arthritis. Pfizer
studies as far back as 1997 show deaths as a result of
ingesting Rimadyl. Being that the drug is very profitable
to vets and the drug manufacturer, many vets and Pfizer
have not communicated the drug's deadly risk to the public
as originally requested by the FDA. The FDA had asked Pfizer
to state one of the drugs side -effects as, "death". Pfizer
chose to withdrawal their commercials rather than state
"death" as a side-effect.

-----------------
Post by Sharon Too
it works well for chronic problems and short
term for pre and post op orthopedic surgery.
Rimadly can KILL heelthy dogs NEARLY INSTANTLY.

IT'S PURE GARBAGE:

From: MWOODROWE
Date: Thurs, Mar 16 2000 12:00 am
Email: ***@aol.com (MWOODROWE)

Unfortuantely when I put my dog on Rimadyl the problems
were not as well known.

It was when the drug was new. My collie did developed
liver problems after months of use. I took him off the
drug immediately but had to put him to sleep 2 weeks later.
Post by Sharon Too
Also Deramaxx.
BET YOUR LIFE ON IT.
Post by Sharon Too
However, horror stories abound on the internet.
Yeah. Professional EXXXPERT WITNESSES for SUPERIOR CRIMINAL COURTS
often rely on FORENSIC EVIDENCE
gained through CASE HISTORY DATA from world wide web
internet searches <{); ~ ) >
Post by Sharon Too
Consider the source,
INDEEDY. You've got a VERY LONG POSTED CASE
HISTORY of HURTIN INTIMDIATIN and MURDERIN
INNOCENT DEFENSELESS DUMB CRITTERS an LYIN
abHOWET IT FOR PROFIT.
Post by Sharon Too
but precautions do need to be taken.
INDEEDY. PRECAUTIONS like The Freakin Simply Amazing
Puppy Wizard IDENTIFYING EXXXPOSING and DISCREDITING
you and HIS readers DOIN THEIR OWN RESEARCH:

LAWSUIT OVER VETERINARY DRUG SETTLED FOR
IMMEDIATE RELEASE - Johns Island, South Carolina -
August 18, 2004

Jean Townsend of Johns Island, South Carolina announced
today that a settlement has been reached with Pfizer, Inc.
in what appears to be the first lawsuit of its kind in this
country - a lawsuit over injuries that led to the death of
Ms. Townsend's chocolate lab, George.

Ms. Townsend originally brought a class action lawsuit against
Pfizer in October of 1999, two years after the tragic death of
George. The lawsuit alleged that after initial approval by the
FDA, the drug RimadylR, which was the subject of an unprecedented
multi-million dollar advertising campaign, was marketed without a
complete understanding of the serious side-effects that could
result from the drug.

Ms. Townsend also alleged that neither she nor her vet
were adequately warned of the potential side-effects.

After administering the drug for only 14 days, George developed
severe internal bleeding and ultimately liver failure. George was
euthanized on October 13, 1997. In reaching the settlement, Pfizer
has admitted no wrong- doing.

"It was truly horrible," said Townsend of the experience.

"But the most troubling aspect of the ordeal was when I later
learned that similar side-effects had been reported to Pfizer
and the FDA months before I first gave the drug to my dog.

Yet even after my pet became sick, I continued to give him the
pills because they were supposed to make him feel better. I had
no idea that he was suffering from the side-effects of RimadylR.

It is devastating to live with the realization that I gave my
beloved pet medicine to help him when, in fact, it was killing
him." After reporting George's death to Pfizer, Ms. Townsend
was offered a $249.33 settlement, but the offer came with the
condition that the settlement remain confidential.

Ms. Townsend refused. In the months following George's death,
Ms. Townsend began researching this drug on the internet and
soon discovered dozens of other pet owners who had similar
experiences with RimadylR.

Fueled by the growing number of people whose dogs had become
sick or died after taking the drug, Ms. Townsend, along with
other concerned pet owners, started a campaign to raise awareness
of the potential for serious side- effects with this and other
veterinary medicines. As part of that campaign, Ms. Townsend
and others met with FDA officials as well as Pfizer veterinarians,
urging them to step-up efforts to more thoroughly inform pet
owners of the potential for serious side-effects with veterinary
medicines. Unsatisfied with the response of the FDA and Pfizer,
Ms. Townsend turned to the legal system and filed a class-action
lawsuit.

In her suit, Ms. Townsend sought reimbursement of the $734.00
in veterinary expenses she had incurred trying to save George,
as well as establishing a class action on behalf of the hundreds
of other dog owners whose pets had become ill or died.

In the meantime, reports of adverse reactions to Rimadyl
continued to rise, and in 1998, RimadylR accounted for
almost 39% of all Adverse Drug Experience Reports received
by the FDA.

The reports were so numerous that in December of 1999, the
FDA took the extraordinary step of issuing a public statement
on the drug.

Within months of Ms. Townsend's suit and the "Update on
RimadylR" issued by the FDA, Pfizer announced significant
changes in packaging, and that it would begin dispensing
a Client Information Sheet to be included with veterinary
prescriptions of RimadylR.

The Client Information Sheet, modeled after similar drug
information sheets included with many human drugs, was
to provide pet owners with easily understandable information
about the potential side-effects and what to do if side-effects
occur.

Ms. Townsend reports that as part of the settlement,Pfizer
made cash offers to over 300 other dog owners across the
country to settle claims for death or injury to the dog,
veterinary expenses, property damage, emotional distress
and punitive damages.

These individual offers averaged over $1000.00 per animal
and did not include a confidentiality provision. Speaking
about the lawsuit and the settlement, Ms. Townsend said,
"I am pleased that through this suit, hundreds of other
pet owners will be reimbursed for veterinary expenses and
the loss of their pets.

Of course, no amount of money would ever replace the loss
of my friend George,and the loss of so many other beloved
companions." But to Ms. Townsend, (who donated her settlement
proceeds to a local veterinarian to perform surgery on a pet
whose owners could not afford the surgery) the issue is far
more than the money paid by Pfizer.

It is the growing public awareness that the medications we
give our pets can have serious side-effects. "We, as pet
owners, have the right to know as much about the good and
bad sides of veterinary medicines as we do the medicines
we give ourselves."
Post by Sharon Too
As long as baseline blood panels are done and the liver
and kidneys are healthy, there shouldn't be a problem.
Regular bloodwork if these drugs are given long term will
be necessary to monitor the liver and kidneys.
THAT'S INSANE.
Post by Sharon Too
Short answer - get that second opinion.
BWEEEEAHAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!
Post by Sharon Too
-Sharon
Dr. Michael Halliday
- ArthrotolT -
Nutritional Fraud

HOWEDY Dr. Halliday,

I'm Jerry Howe, The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard.
It has come to The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard's
attention that you are perpertrating nutritional
fraud on J.Q. Pubic.

You and your product and propriatory method of
preparation have been IDENTIFIED, EXXXPOSED
and DISCREDITED as FRAUDULENT and POSSIBLY
dangerHOWES <{) ; ~ ) >

Here's marcel the imbecile idiot liar dog abuser
coward phd psychoclHOWEN doin a scientific
review of YOUR nutritional product.

His own little dog attacked his Mrs. for takin sumpthin
away from him he'd stolen and has a hisory of fearfulness
and aggression towards his daughter even after 1.5 years,
grHOWELS at him when he carries the paper and grHOWELS CONSTANTLY at
his own brother when he visits on
accHOWENT of he LOOKS LIKE marcel.

He's currently seeking his third basic obedience training
course to train his three year old puppy.

marcel has given his scientific review of the
fraudulent product mentioned below despite
it bein UNCONDITIONALLY MONEY BACK
SATISFACTION GUARANTEED for WON YEAR.
Post by Sharon Too
Post by Paul
I'm especially interested in what folks have to
say about the ingredients.
Hey Suja, I took a look at the page briefly, and here
are my comments as I read it: http://www.vetcures.com/
The guy who developped this product is a human physician.
Humans are not dogs. Drugs that work for humans may not
work for dogs and vice-versa.
The intro also uses a lot of loaded words to try to make people
feel guilty about choosing pharmaceuticals over natural products.
Arthritis cannot be reversed nor can it be cured (from
www.arthritis.ca).
There are natural fluctuations in the course of the disease that
may result in the artritis appear to be cured. (In humans)
The clinical study - Well, first of all the fact that over 6 months,
those that didn't take it showed no fluctuations in their symtoms
I find hard to believe. Also, how do you tell, on a scale from 1-10,
what level your dog is at? How were the dogs chosen? Were the
levels of activity the same? There are a lot of questions about the
trial that make me put it down to wishful thinking.
"It allows nutrients to intereact with one another, breaking them
down into the simplest ionic forms. This ultimately has a positive
effect on regenerating joint and tissue repair."
I call bullshit. So far, *no* biochemist, biologist or scientist
has been able to come up with anything that can come close
the the effectiveness of enzymes. And natural products don't
work as well either.
For him to claim otherwise is a lie.
He also makes some interesting claims that are contradictory.
First that it is small and low molecular weight, and then that
it detoxifies by chelating. To chelate something, it needs to be
(relatively) large, and thus not a low molecular weight and not
small. (Note, this all depends on what molecular weight range
he is talking about.)
"The properties in ArthrotolT bind with the pollutants,
which catalyzes the breakdown of these toxic pollutants."
This sentance just makes no sense at all.
"Positive electrons"
From an unrelated site http://tinyurl.com/rbl8j :

Fulvic- the Super Antioxidant

For an antioxidant to bind to a free-radical, the antioxidant
molecule must have unpaired electrons of equal and opposite
charge to that of the unpaired electrons of the free radical.

The beauty of Fulvic is that it is a bi-directional super
antioxidant that carries both a negative and a positive charge.

It can act as an acceptor or a donor in the creation of
electrochemical balance. If it encounters free-radicals
with unpaired positive electrons, it supplies an equal
and opposite negative charge to neutralize the bad effects
of the free radicals. Likewise, if the free-radicals carry
a negative charge, the Fulvic molecule can supply positive
unpaired electrons to nullify that charge. Fulvic is such
a powerful, natural electrolyte that it can eradicate any
form of free radical."
Post by Sharon Too
Don't exist.
Of curse not.
Post by Sharon Too
Figment of his imagination.
INDEED.
Post by Sharon Too
Electrons are negative.
Yeah...
Post by Sharon Too
Always have been,
Of curse.
Post by Sharon Too
always will be.
EXXXCEPT WHEN THEY AIN'T, marcel the imbecile:

The Nobel Prize in Physics 1948

Presentation Speech by Professor G. Ising,
member of the Nobel Committee for Physics

"Anderson had at the time succeeded in obtaining a few
photographs, showing the temporary existence of free
positive electrons. These electrons, on account of their
strong tendency to fuse with negative ones, seemed to
exist free in a space filled with matter, only as long as
they move at a great speed."

You can SKIP the BORING DETAILS:

The Nobel Prize in Physics 1948

Presentation Speech by Professor G. Ising,
member of the Nobel Committee for Physics

Royal Highnesses, Ladies and Gentlemen.

According to the statutes of the Nobel Foundation, the Nobel
Prize for Physics may be awarded for "discovery or invention
in the field of physics".

The Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences in awarding this
years' prize to Professor P.M.S. Blackett of Manchester, for
his development of the Wilson method and his discoveries,
made by this method, in nuclear physics and on cosmic
radiation, indicates by the very wording of the award, that
its decision is motivated on both the grounds mentioned
in the statutes.

Particular weight may perhaps, in this case, be laid on the
discoveries made, but these only became possible by Blackett's
development of the method and the apparatus.

Experimental research on the different kinds of rays appearing
in nuclear physics has always been based to a great extent on
the power of an electrically charged atomic particle, when
moving at high speed, to ionize the gas through which it passes,
i.e. to split a number of gas molecules along its path into positive
and negative ions. Thus, one is able to count the number of
particles by means of the Geiger-counter tube; such a counter
being a special, very sensitive kind of ionization chamber, in
which even a few ions produced by the ray are sufficient to
release a short-lived discharge by an avalanche-like process.

But the whole course of the particle appears infinitely more
clearly by the method invented by C.T.R. Wilson in 1911
and named after him. The radiation is allowed to enter an
expansion-chamber, containing a gas saturated with water
vapour.

A sudden expansion of the chamber cools the gas, and cloud-
drops are then formed instantly around the ions produced along
the tracks of the particles. By suitable illumination these tracks
can be made to stand out clearly as if they had been described
by luminous projectiles.

The "Altmeister" of modern nuclear physics, Lord Rutherford,
once called the Wilson chamber "the most original and wonderful
instrument in scientific history".

But still, the immense value of the Wilson method for
research purposes did not become really apparent until
the early twenties, and the credit for this changed attitude
was largely due to the work of Blackett, who has ever
since been the leading man in the development of the
method.

Before 1932 his work dealt chiefly with the heavy
particles, appearing in radioactive radiations.

In 1925, he obtained the first photographs ever taken of
a nuclear disruption, namely the disruption of a nitrogen
nucleus by an alpha particle of high velocity; the photographs
clarified quite definitely the main features of the process.

In this investigation and others from the same period he
also verified, by accurate measurements, that the course
of a collision between atomic nuclei always follows the
classical laws of conservation of momentum and energy,
provided the energy value of mass, as given by the theory
of relativity, is also taken into account.

These two laws, together with the conservation law of
electricity, i.e. that positive and negative electricity are
always produced together in equal amounts, form a set
of three fundamental principles of general validity.

Blackett was soon to give to these principles an unexpectedly
rich content by new experimental discoveries. In 1932 namely,
he turned his interest to the cosmic rays, which at sea level are
mainly vertical.

The Wilson cloud chamber had already begun to be used
at different places for the study of these rays, but with very
low efficiency, as only about every twentieth random
photograph showed the track of a cosmic ray. This was due
to the fact that the rays are disperse both in space and time,
and they must pass through the chamber only about a
hundredth of a second before or after the moment of
expansion, if they are to give a sharp track.

Nevertheless, Anderson had at the time succeeded in
obtaining a few photographs, showing the temporary
existence of free positive electrons.

These electrons, on account of their strong tendency
to fuse with negative ones, seemed to exist free in
a space filled with matter, only as long as they move
at a great speed."

Meanwhile, The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard returns
to doin what HE does BEAST, i.e., IDENTIFY, EXXXPOSE
and DISCREDIT the miserable lyin dog abusing frauds we
got misleadin folks and slandering innocent defenseless
scientific researchers and businessmen <{); ~ ) >
Post by Sharon Too
Fundamental part of their nature.
Could be these other guys are wrong and marcel the imbecile is right:

On-line: www.vitalearth.org

[1] N. Scenecssi (1990). Analytical Chmiica Acta, 232-75.
Amsterdam, The Netherlands Elscvier.

[2] William R. Jackson (1993) Humic, Fulvid and Microbial
Balance: Organic Soil Conditioning, 329. Evergreen Colorado:
Jackson Research Center

[3] M. Schneitzer. Proceedings of the Symposium on Soil
Organic Matter Studies, Braunsweig

[4] M. Schneitzer. Proceedings of the Symposium on Soil
Organic Matter Studies, Braunsweig

[5] Aiken, G.R., McKinght, D.M. $ MacCarthy, P (1985).
Humic Substances of Soil, Sediment and Water. New York:
Wiley-Interscience

[6] Azo, S & Sakai, I. Soil Science and Plant Nutrition (Tokyo)

[7] Buffle, J (1988) Complexation reactions in aquatic systems:
An analytical approach Chichester: Horwood

[8] Schnitzer, M., & Dodama, H (1977). Reactions of minerals
with soil humic substances. In J.B. Dixon & S.B. Weed (Eds.).
Minerals in soil environments, Madison WI: Soil Science Society
of America

[9] Dr. Roger J. Williams, (1977). The Wonderful World Within
You. Bio-communications Press, Wichita, KS

[10] F. Chaboussou (1980). Les Plantes Malades de Pesticides -
Bases Nouvelles D'unePrevention Contre Maladies et Parasites
(Plants made sick by pesticides - new basis for the prevention
of diseases and pests). Paris

[11] Rick Aluise, Health and Vitality, Vital-Earth Minerals,
Grand Junction, CO

[12] Bari, Italy Analytica Chimica Acta, Amsterdam,
Netherlands, Elsevier.

Vital-Earth Minerals, LLC
Toll Free:
1-866-291-4400
http://www.vitalearth.org
Email: ***@vitalearth.org

--------------
Post by Sharon Too
"ArthrotolTis a refiner and transporter of organic minerals and
other cell nutrients, it has the ability to turn bad guys in good
guys by chelating free radicals. Depending upon the chemical
makeup of the free radical, they can be incorporated into and
become a part of life sustaining bio-availiable nutrients.
They may become an asset instead of a liability. In the event
that the chemical makeup of the free radical is of no particular
benefit, it is chelated, mobilized, and carried out of the body
as a waste product."
From the same unrelated site above:

"It is also one of the most powerful natural antioxidants and
free radical scavengers known. It has the unique ability to
react with both negatively and positively charged unpaired
electrons and render free radicals harmless. It can either
alter them into new useable compounds or eliminate them as waste.

Fulvic can similarly scavenge heavy metals and detoxify pollutants."
Post by Sharon Too
I am sorry,
INDEEDY, marcel the imbicile. HOWEver, SORRY ain't a good
state of mind, marcel the imbecile. You could become STRESSED
and suffer some debilitating STRESS INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE
DIS-EASE aka The Puppy Wizard's Syndrome <{); ~ ) >

That could KILL you, if you don't watch HOWET.

The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard wants to TEACH
you humility, patience, respect, morals, ethics, values, principles
and unconditional love, trust, an RESPECT, marcel.
Post by Sharon Too
but a single compound cannot be a refiner, transporter and
enzyme. Nature does not work that way, it is too inefficient.
Sez you? You just finished school, didn't you, marcel?

You been WORKIN long enough an hard enough to SAVE
UP to PAY for a defamation, maliciHOWES slander and
intentional interference with legitimate business lawsuit,
marcel the imbecile idiot liar dog and child abuser Ph.D.
psychoclHOWEN <{); ~ ) >
Post by Sharon Too
For every job, there is a highly specialized molecule that
does that job and that job alone. Different job, different
molecule.
Well marcel, take your COMPLAINTS
and CONCERNS to the DOCTORS.
Post by Sharon Too
"Ionic Elements: Boron, Calcium, Carbon, Copper, Hydrogen, Iron,
Lithium, Manganese, Magnesium, Nitrogen, Oxygen, Phosphorus,
Potassium, Silica, Silver, Sodium, Sulfur, Titanium, and Zinc. "
As a chemist (not a biochemist, so my judgement may not be right)
You're overdue for a STROKE OF SHEER BLIND
STUPID DUMB LUCK, marcel the imbecile.

First time for EVERYTHING, eh, marcel the imbecile
idiot liar dog abuser coward active acute chronic
long term incurable mental case <{): ~ ) >
Post by Sharon Too
the above is full of crap.
Could be, bein as The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard
is just a highly uneducated backyard shade tree shit kickin dog
trainer HE wouldn't know abHOWET it. Therefore your SEZ
SO is GOOD ENOUGH to steer this professional dog trainer
and HIS clientel away from a probably dangerHOWES product
that cannot possibly be of any benefit despite the WON YEAR
SATISFACTION MONEY BACK GUARANTEE.
Post by Sharon Too
I highly doubt that a single organic compound will contain all
of the above elements, plus all of the trace elemnts below.
CITES PLEASE, marcel?
Post by Sharon Too
The likelyhood that it does
You mean based on your own personal uneducated /
unawares estimation of LUCK?
Post by Sharon Too
is about the same chance that Jerry has of
knowing anything about dog training.
Yeah. THAT'S HOWE COME The Freakin Simply Amazing
Puppy Wizard was just talkin abHOWET your dog being too
fear aggressive with your kid. Does he still grHOWEL at your
brother when he visits and grHOWEL at you when you carry
the newspaper, marcel the imbecile? Has your Mrs. gotten
over her FEAR of gettin bit when she gotta take some
purloined crap HOWETA his MHOWETH, marcel?
Post by Sharon Too
"Trace Elements: Anitmony, Barium, Beryllium, Bismuth,
Bromine, Cadmium, Cerium, Cesium, Chloride, Chromium,
Cobalt, Dysprosium, Erbium, Europium, Fluoride, Gadolinium,
Gallium, Germanium, Gold, Hafnium, Holmium, Indium,
Iodine, Iridium, Lanthanum, Lead, Lutetium, Molybdenum,
Neodymium, Nickel, Niobium, Osmium, Palladium, Platinum,
Praseodymium, Rhenium, Rhodium, Rubidium, Ruthenium,
Samarium, Scandium, Selenium, Somium, Strontium, Tantalium,
Tellurium, Terbium, Thallium, Thorium, Thulium, Tin, Tungsten,
Uranium, Vanadium, Ytterbium, Yttrium, and Zirconium.
There is no doubt to the safety and effectiveness of each of these
individual ingredients. The secret of ArthrotolT's success comes
from the proprietary process behind creating ArthrotolT."
Again, this is complete and utter bullshit.
Sez you, marcel the imbecile?
Post by Sharon Too
He is just pulling things off of the periodic table.
Oh, perhaps he was scannin a line from the page and
turned his back and the copier gave him the WHOWEL
nine yards and he didn't NOTICE, eh marcel?

NO PROBLEMO! The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy
Wizare will Cc them a copy of YOUR SCIENTIFIC
REPORT on their product and advise them where
you PUBLISHED your SCIENTIFIC REVIEW <{); ~ ) >
Post by Sharon Too
Some of them are radioactive, some are extremely toxic.
INDEED. Perhaps THAT'S what the good doctor MEANS
when he SEZ: "There is no doubt to the safety and effectiveness
of each of these individual ingredients."
Post by Sharon Too
All in all, I think that this is complete and utter bullshit.
INDEED. Perhaps you'd like to call it to the attention
of the good doctor, at least give him the opportunity
to COME CLEAN, eh marcel the imbecile idiot liar dog
abuser cowards punk thug mental case Ph.D. psychoclHOWEN?
Post by Sharon Too
Right up there with DDR.
INDEED? Could be, marcel. Hey marcel? When are you and
your dog Mooglie gonna start your THIRD BASIC OBEDIENCE
TRAINING CLASS? Will your Mrs. be trained as an alternate
handler? And will little Emilee be able to give commands
like HOWE her daddy does, marcel?

Meanwhile, The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy
Wizard was just BHOWENIN up on some neuclear
physics. From: "The Nobel Prize in Physics 1948
Presentation Speech by Professor G. Ising, member
of the Nobel Committee for Physics

Royal Highnesses, Ladies and Gentlemen.

Immediately after completing this apparatus, Blackett
and Occhialini discovered, in cosmic radiation, positive
and negative electrons appearing in pairs; their tracks
were deflected in opposite directions by a superposed
magnetic field and they seemed to start from some common
origin, often situated in the wall of the chamber.

Sometimes such tracks appeared in great numbers, whole
"gerbes", on the same photographic plate, demonstrating
the existence in the cosmic radiation of veritable "showers"
of positive and negative electrons.

Shortly afterwards they established, in collaboration with
Chadwick, that electron pairs are also produced by hard gamma
rays, i.e. by the radiation of ultrashort wavelength emitted
by certain radioactive substances; here the energy relations
could be studied more closely than in the case of cosmic rays.

I shall try to give an idea of the great importance of these
experimental results, even beyond the fact that they established
irrefutably the existence of positive electrons.

The discovery of the pair creation of electrons led, on the
theoretical side, to the acceptance of two fundamental radiation
processes of a reverse nature, which may be called transmutation
of light into matter (represented by electron pairs) and vice versa.

These processes take place within the framework of the three
fundamental principles, just mentioned, regarding the conservation
of momentum, energy and electricity: a quantum of light passing
close to an atomic nucleus, may thus be transformed into a pair
of electrons; but this is possible only if its energy at least
equals the sum of the energy values of the two electronic masses.

Since the rest mass of each electron corresponds to 1/2 million
electron volts, the light must possess a frequency at least
corresponding to 1 million electron volts. If there is an excess
of energy (i.e. if the frequency of the light is still higher),
this excess will appear as the kinetic energy of the two electrons
created.

Reversely, the meeting of two slow electrons, opposite in sign,
results in their fusion and annihilation as material particles;
in this process two light quanta, each of 1/2 million electron
volts, are formed; these fly out from the point of encounter in
opposite directions, so that the total momentum remains about
zero (for even light possesses a momentum directed along the ray).
Post by Sharon Too
--
Marcel and Moogli
http://mudbunny.blogspot.com/
http://www.vetcures.com/
About Us

Hello, I am Dr. Michael Halliday. I have been in clinical
practice for the past 25 years. It has been over 11 years
since I lost both my parents to cancer. Through my loss I
have spent the last 10 years doing research in the areas
of nutrition and water.

As a complimentary healthcare physician I have developed
products which have had a significant impact on the health
and well being of my patients. By adding just a few drops
of this product, it affects water purity and energy. "Giving
life back to water so that water gives life to us."

Having six animals in our family (five dogs and an African
Grey Parrot), I felt it was my moral obligation to give them
the benefits of this one of a kind product. I can now honestly
say "Tested on humans and found to be safe for pets."

Hello, I am Michael Halliday, the son of Dr. Michael Halliday,
and President of VetCuresT LLC. I have always been an animal
lover and a passion of mine is to help all animals.

It has been 3 years now since I lost my dog Stud, a
Staffordshire Bull Terrier. Stud was a great dog. He
was very affectionate and had a wonderful personality.
Stud developed a rare kidney disease and sadly I had
no choice but to have him put down. I couldn't stand
seeing him suffer anymore. It was one of the hardest
things I have ever done.

Shortly after Stud was gone, I decided that I wanted help
pets and animals all around the world. My father and I came
up with the idea to use his products that he had developed
for his patients, to help pets and animals. Now we have
reformulated one specific product to target Arthritis.

This product is called ArthrotolT, which targets arthritis
and arthritic symptoms. This product is even being used as
a preventative for animal arthritis.

I know what it is like to have a pet with arthritis. My
family had a Bull-Mastiff when I was a kid. At the age
of 8 he was put down because of his arthritic pain. He
couldn't move around the house, the pain made him miserable.

Please don't let your pet go through this problem let alone yourself.

I don't want people to see their pets or animals suffer
like I had to. My goal for VetCuresT LLC is to help as
many pets and animals as I possibly can. By helping pets
and animals I get the added bonus of helping the owner.

Any owner will get to see the tremendous results. I truly
believe that VetCuresT LLC can and will help you and your
pet. That is why VetCuresT LLC has reformulated other
products to target specific needs for your pet or animal.

So please check back soon to check out new products.

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth:
I came not so send peace, but a sword.
"For I am come to set a man at variance against
his father, and the daughter against her mother
and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
"And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
- Matthew 10:34-36.

The Puppy Prophet <{); ~ ) >

All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer

"Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
even tho it's a hopeless task,
in this system of things.
As long as man is ruling man,
there will be animals (and humans!)
abused and neglected. :-(
Your student," Juanita.

"If you've got them by the balls their hearts
and minds will follow,"
John Wayne.

Yours,
Jerry Howe,
Director of Research,
Human And Animal Behavior
Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory,
BIOSOUND Scientific,
Director of Training,
Wits' End Dog Training
1611 24th St
Orlando, FL 32805
Phone: 1-407-425-5092

The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{); ~ ) >

ANY QUESTIONS, DUMMIES?
,-._,-,
V)"(V
(_o_) Have a great day!
/ V)
(l l l) Your Puppy Wizard. <{YPW); ~ } >
oo-oo

NOT a veterinary malpracticioner <{}: ~ ) >
pfoley
2007-05-08 22:47:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Hi all,
I have a 15 and half year old English Cocker Spaniel who is now getting old
and tired. During her life she has had little in the way of health problems
but over the last two years in particular has slowed down to a point where
she spends the majority of her time sleeping and only wanders as far as the
back garden. She now poo's and wee's in the house which we have learned to
cope with (Vax is very useful!) and will walk around in circles and not be
so interested in contact and been with us. Due to the leaking if is often
necessary to bath her once a day to avoid her smelling too much, we intend
to replace all the carpet once she is no longer with us.
We can no longer leave her with friends/neighbors for the day and it would
now be difficult for us to take her away in the caravan so this year we have
made no plans to go anywhere as we need to stay with her.
I will be devastated when she finally goes, she is my first and only dog and
has been a real friend to me and I will find it so difficult if I have to
make a decision at some point to have her put down.
I guess what I am asking here is am I doing the right thing at the moment, I
do not know what her quality of life is and I suppose I just want to think
its ok and let things carry on for now. It's easy for me to get emotional
over this and a number of years ago I found this poem which I have kept the
link to that brings tears to my eyes every time I look at it
http://www.la-spca.org/pet_loss/comfort/last_battle.htm
I happen to be a 43 year old bloke with a wife and two young children but
when my dog is finally put to rest it is going to be very difficult.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Paul
===========
The reason she could be walking around in circles is that she can't see. I
had a 16 year old poodle that went blind with cataracts and walked around in
circles.
H***@HotMail.Com
2007-05-08 23:30:10 UTC
Permalink
HOWEDY Paul,
Post by Paul
Hi all,
I have a 15 and half year old English Cocker Spaniel
That's a respectable age <{}: ~ ) >
Post by Paul
who is now getting old and tired.
Well, Duh-Oh!

Me too!
Post by Paul
During her life she has had little in the way of health problems
Good for her.
Post by Paul
but over the last two years in particular has slowed down to a
point where she spends the majority of her time sleeping and
only wanders as far as the back garden.
ME TOO! Hey, when I was 40 I could play for days
on end withHOWET shuttin my eyes and then work
till there wasn't no more to be done and go play some
more for ten days withHOWET a decent rest period.

HOWEver, NHOWE that I'm pressin 60, I can only
hammer on these pathetic animal murderin mental
cases for maybe 30 HOWERS straight and then gotta
take a nap for maybe three HOWERS and still PLAY
a while inbetween <{}: ~ ) >
Post by Paul
She now poo's and wee's in the house
O.K., "incontinence" is seldom INCONTINENCE. There's
a HUGE relationship to anXXXIHOWESNES and so called
canine cognitive disorder, which your pup may be havin a
touch of <{}: ~ ) >

There MAY be some things you can do to correct that
using the techniques in your own FREE COPY of The
Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing
Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog, Child,
Pussy And Horsey Training Method Manual <{}: ~ ) >
Post by Paul
which we have learned to cope with (Vax is very useful!)
What's Vax? Do you mean a vaccume cleaner?
Post by Paul
and will walk around in circles and not be
so interested in contact and been with us.
Yeah, THAT'S "CCD". You can FIX THAT EZ!

Just follow the instructions in your manual!

Ooops! Please pardon The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin
Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy,
Birdy And Horsey Wizard, HE almost FORGOT! Seems
HE'S gettin a little "divya" in HIS old age... WELCOME
to The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog, Child, Kat
And Horse Training Method Manual Forums And Human
And Animal Behavior Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory <{); ~ ) >

I'm Jerry Howe, The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard<{) ; ~ ) >

Here's your own FREE COPY of The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin
Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And
Horsey Wizard's

The *666* Edition Of Your Own
FREE COPY
Of
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing
GRAND
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog, Child, Kat And Horsey Training Method Manual<{) ; ~ )>
Post by Paul
Due to the leaking if is often necessary to bath her once
a day to avoid her smelling too much, we intend to replace
all the carpet once she is no longer with us.
Well, that IS too bad, but it's to be EXXXPECTED in old age.
Go ahead and try an work on it usin the 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANT techniques. You SHOULD at least be able
to CON-TROLL the defecation and "wandering" or circling and
make her MUCH more comfortable in the meanwhile <{}: ~ ) >
Post by Paul
We can no longer leave her with friends/neighbors for
the day and it would now be difficult for us to take her
away in the caravan so this year we have made no plans
to go anywhere as we need to stay with her.
Good for you! Perhaps if you can get CON-TROLL of
the problem behaviors you'll be able to look forward to
takin a little vacation... I'll NEVER see a vacation <{}: ~ ( >
Post by Paul
I will be devastated when she finally goes,
LikeWIZE <{}: ~ ( >

It's always hard on the survivors.

Hey? We got a very active pet loss news group if
you want some empathy from other folks who can't
get over their grief - alt.support.grief.pet-loss <{}: ~ ) >

In fact, I've just posted a few detailed CASE HISTORIES
to the group for your edification. You might want to read
them first, if you've got a strong constitution <{}; ~ ) >
Post by Paul
she is my first and only dog and has been a real friend
to me and I will find it so difficult if I have to make a
decision at some point to have her put down.
THAT was the topic of discussion in WON of today's posts
to ANOTHER poster callin hisself "mr wizard". TRUST ME,
he AIN'T no doGdameneD wizard, nor is he an animal lover,
he's just a pathetic permenant self pitty party. You might be
able to learn alot from watchin his pain, there's no need to
suffer when you got someWON else you can feel sorrier for.
Post by Paul
I guess what I am asking here is am I
doing the right thing at the moment,
You mean by NOT MURDERIN your elderly dog?
What kinda LESSON would THAT be for your kids?
You could be in the same boat some day! IN FACT,
WON of the posters WAS in the same boat with her
own momma, and she wished her DEAD rather than
"puttin up" with her OLD AGE problems.

We had quite a discussion abHOWET it.
Post by Paul
I do not know what her quality of life is
ANY day WON can awaken in not too much pain
an say 'HOWEDY!' is a EXXXCELLENT day!
Post by Paul
and I suppose I just want to think its ok
and let things carry on for now.
But of curse. Don't feel too bad abHOWET the urinary
incontinence, maybe 45% of HOWER fellHOWE dog
lover's dogs GOT THE SAME PROBLEM in their
YOUNG dogs, due to inapupriate unnecessary sexual
surgical mutilation and STRESS from OBEDIENCE
TRAINING and toxic veterinary care <{}; ~ ) >

YOU GOT LUCKY!
Post by Paul
It's easy for me to get emotional over this
Naaah, you only THINK you're "emotional". YOU
AIN'T SEEN NUTHING YET, till you take a look
see over at a.s.g.p.l. They got PROFESSIONAL
mourners <{}; ~ ) >
Post by Paul
and a number of years ago I found this poem which I
have kept the link to that brings tears to my eyes every
time I look at it
http://www.la-spca.org/pet_loss/comfort/last_battle.htm
Oh, THAT was PROBABLY written by noon cat nick aka
nickie nooner, he's a poet and song author, you know! OR
it MIGHTA been write by ed williams, pet loss grief CON-
SELLER. You'll find his PRIVATE forum at petloss.COIN.
If you give him $50.00 (cash or money order only, please)
he'll send you a nice Rainbow Bridge tee shirt and his
PROMISE to EXXXPOSE The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin
Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy
And Horsey Wizard as a FRAUD and CON ARTIST <{}; ~ ) >
Post by Paul
I happen to be a 43 year old bloke with a wife and two
young children but when my dog is finally put to rest it
is going to be very difficult.
NO IT AIN'T. JUST DON'T EVEN THINK abHOWET IT.

When your dog finally lays DHOWEN and can't get up,
then MAYBE, if there AIN'T NO WAY noHOWE that
you can keep her happy enough to maybe have a bite of
CHOWE or maybe say 'HOWEDY Daddy!!' JUST WON
MORE TIME.

AND YOU'LL NEVER KNOW till IT'S TOO LATE.

So... DON'T EVEN THINK abHOWET IT.
Post by Paul
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
In my forty sumpthin years of specializing in
temperament and behavior problems in mostly
giant breed workin dogs, there's only TWO dogs
I've owned who "NEEDED" to be MURDERED
and IT AIN'T WORTH IT unless they're in constant
intractible pain.

Of curse, bein dogs that HOWEtweighed me by 25lb -
50 lbs, carrying them or even just pickin them up to
clean under them was IMPOSSIBLE <{}: ~ ( >
Post by Paul
Paul
Subject: < BEFORE -> "Jerry, You filthy, Unctuous,
No Good Charlatan,"

< AFTER -> "Thank You Jerry For Putting Up With
A Constant Barrage Of Really Infantile
Crap At The Hands Of Supposedly Adult
Dog Lovers.

'Naive' Is Believing You Can Terrorize
A Dog Into Good Behavior," Robert Crim.
Post by Paul
Subject: Re: Fritz---a retrospective
Date: 02/05/1999
You filthy, unctuous, no good charlatan. If you had
any idea of what dogs and dog people were about
you would realize the depths of the absolute loathing
and contempt I hold for you right now. Were it not
for the blessed distance and anonymity that the internet
gives us from the scummy likes of you, I would probably
be in a jail cell right now for turning you into the pile
of shit you really are
Hey, Howe, you really are a wacko, eh?

Crim wrote this about *YOU,* you insipid piece of cow dung!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
--
Dogman
mailto:***@i1.net
http://www.i1.net/~dogman

====================
Post by Paul
On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:24:15 -0700, dogsnus
Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
come forward and actually believe in his training manual.
Robert Crim writes:

I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs
since I freely admit to having read and, I hope, understood
enough of the manual and it's counterparts by John Fisher
and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe and use it.

This naive child would like to say thank you to both
Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage
of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly
adult dog lovers.

The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the
nagging idea that if people like them had been posting
earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head
of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was
given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he
gasped his last gasp.

To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog.

Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake
names are more honest than people that use their real
names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders
and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.)
are the equal or better than those that have studied and
lived by their craft for decades.

"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are
going to just go away because you people act like fools.

Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I
don't really care.
Post by Paul
And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and
actually admit to buying and having success with his
little black box.
I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and
take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and
testing. You would never believe the results, so you'll
never know.
Post by Paul
Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming
to him! LOL!
I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve,
eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.
Post by Paul
Terri
Yes it was, and that is sad.

Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to
listen to the box first?)

===========

This was professor of Behavior ANAL-ysis at UofWI, marshall
dermer's first analysis of "Pure Positive" methods:

From: Marshall Dermer (***@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST

And how do we know this aspect of his advice is right?

Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.

(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
ill-mannered, or just plain ill.­),

--Marshall

Marshall Lev Dermer/ Department of Psychology/ University of
Wisconsin-Milwaukee/ Milwaukee, WI 53201/ ***@uwm.edu
http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
"Life is just too serious to be taken entirely seriousyl!"

Subject changed: JUMPING / MOUTHING On PEOPLE (Ninnyboy)

26 From: Marshall Dermer -
Date: Tues, Aug 14 2001 8:15 pm
Email: ***@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer)

In article <***@posting.google.com>
***@yahoo.com (Matthew Burnside) writes:

Dear Matt:

Many have offered Jerry constructive advice but
Jerry has failed to profit from it.

My sincere advice is to filter out Jerry's posts.

--Marshall

PS: I have put "Ninnyboy" in the header for many of us filter
posts with this term. The term indicates that the post
is about Jerry.

I have read rpdb for about five years. Consequently, I urge
newbies to attend to the civil and rational posts of the rpdb
regulars from whom I have learned much. They include:
Ann (,Twzl, Sligo & Roy), Amy Dahl, Diane Blackman,
jdoee, Janet Boss, Susan Fraser, Avrama Gingold, Nancy
Holmes, Lynn Kosmakos, Bob Maida, MaryBeth, Ruth
Mays, Cindy Tittle Moore, Robin Nuttall, Denna Pace,
John Richardson, Sarah Sionnach, Ludwig Smith, Jane
Webb, and Terri Willis.

*(EVERY WON of them got VERY LONG POSTED CASE}
HISTORIES of INCURABLE MENTAL ILLNESS an HURTIN
INTIMIDATIN an MURDERIN INNOCENT DEFENSELESS
DUMB CRITTERS an LYIN abHOWET IT.)

Marshall Lev Dermer/Associate Professor/Behavior Analysis
Specialty/ Department of Psychology/University of
Wisconsin--Milwaukee/Milwaukee, WI 53201
***@uwm.edu http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer

"If I am not for myself, who will be for me. But if I am only for
myself, what am I?" _The Talmud_

YOU'RE FRAUDS, drs p. and dermer!

Either DEFEND your LIES, ABUSE And
Degrees or get the heel HOWETA THIS
BUSINESS.

Here's professor dermer AFTER gettin JERRYIZED:

"We Are Lucky To Have You, And More People Should
Come To Their Senses And Support Your Valuable Work.
God Bless The Puppy Wizard," Professor Marshall Dermer,
Dept Of ANAL-ytic Behavior, UofWI.

From: "Marshall Dermer" <***@csd.uwm.edu>
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
<***@earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM

Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,

I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
and now must applaud your attempts to save
animals from painful training procedures.

You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent­,
who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts ­to
alert the world to animal abuse.

We are lucky to have you, and more people should
come to their senses and support your valuable
work.

Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
charity to fund your important work?
Have you thought about holding a press conference
so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
and significant work?

In closing, my only suggestion is that you
try to keep your messages short for most
readers may refuse to read a long message
even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
I wish you well in your endeavors.

--Marshall Dermer

----------------

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress
can be judged
by the way its animals are treated." ~
Mohandas Gandhi --
Adapted with permission from his FREE
copy of The Puppy Wizard's FREE Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual. <}TPW ; ~ ) >

Jer 21 And unto this people thou shalt say,
Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I set before
you The Way Of Life, And The Way Of Death.

2Ki 19:6 And Isaiah said unto them, Thus
shall ye say to your master, Thus saith
the LORD, Be not afraid of the words which
thou hast heard, with which the servants of
the king of Assyria have blasphemed me.

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth:
I came not so send peace, but a sword.
"For I am come to set a man at variance against
his father, and the daughter against her mother
and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
"And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
- Matthew 10:34-36.

The Puppy Prophet <{); ~ ) >

All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer

"Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
even tho it's a hopeless task,
in this system of things.
As long as man is ruling man,
there will be animals (and humans!)
abused and neglected. :-(
Your student," Juanita.

"If you've got them by the balls their hearts
and minds will follow,"
John Wayne.

Yours,
Jerry Howe,
Director of Research,
Human And Animal Behavior Forensic
Sciences Research Laboratory,
BIOSOUND Scientific,
Director of Training,
Wits' End Dog Training
1611 24th St
Orlando, FL 32805
Phone: 1-407-425-5092

The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{); ~ ) >

ANY QUESTIONS, DUMMIES?
,-._,-,
V)"(V
(_o_) Have a great day!
/ V)
(l l l) Your Puppy Wizard. <{YPW); ~ } >
oo-oo

AND THAT'S HOWE COME

THESE ARE

The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing
Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog, Child, Kat And Horse Training
Method Manual Forums And Human And Animal Behavior
Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory <{); ~ ) >
Ed H.
2007-05-09 01:29:12 UTC
Permalink
I don't look forward to the day when I must put down one of my pets. I
would base my decision on the following: would I, in it's condition, rather
be alive or dead? I think I would prefer to live even in poor health, but
I'm in good health so my point of view is skewed.

With that said, if you think she is in lots of pain and you want to stop her
suffering, then I can see putting her down while you hold in your arms one
last time and the family says good bye. If she doesn't seem to be in pain,
has brought so much happiness to you and now just sleeps a lot and piddles
on the carpet, I would keep around as long as possible. I think your
children seeing you care for a long time companion who happens to pee on the
carpet through no fault of her own is a good object leason.
Post by Paul
Hi all,
I have a 15 and half year old English Cocker Spaniel who is now getting
old and tired. During her life she has had little in the way of health
problems but over the last two years in particular has slowed down to a
point where she spends the majority of her time sleeping and only wanders
as far as the back garden. She now poo's and wee's in the house which we
have learned to cope with (Vax is very useful!) and will walk around in
circles and not be so interested in contact and been with us. Due to the
leaking if is often necessary to bath her once a day to avoid her smelling
too much, we intend to replace all the carpet once she is no longer with
us.
We can no longer leave her with friends/neighbors for the day and it would
now be difficult for us to take her away in the caravan so this year we
have made no plans to go anywhere as we need to stay with her.
I will be devastated when she finally goes, she is my first and only dog
and has been a real friend to me and I will find it so difficult if I have
to make a decision at some point to have her put down.
I guess what I am asking here is am I doing the right thing at the moment,
I do not know what her quality of life is and I suppose I just want to
think its ok and let things carry on for now. It's easy for me to get
emotional over this and a number of years ago I found this poem which I
have kept the link to that brings tears to my eyes every time I look at it
http://www.la-spca.org/pet_loss/comfort/last_battle.htm
I happen to be a 43 year old bloke with a wife and two young children but
when my dog is finally put to rest it is going to be very difficult.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Paul
Kathleen
2007-05-09 01:56:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Hi all,
I have a 15 and half year old English Cocker Spaniel who is now getting
old and tired. During her life she has had little in the way of health
problems but over the last two years in particular has slowed down to a
point where she spends the majority of her time sleeping and only
wanders as far as the back garden. She now poo's and wee's in the house
which we have learned to cope with (Vax is very useful!) and will walk
around in circles and not be so interested in contact and been with us.
Due to the leaking if is often necessary to bath her once a day to avoid
her smelling too much, we intend to replace all the carpet once she is
no longer with us.
We can no longer leave her with friends/neighbors for the day and it
would now be difficult for us to take her away in the caravan so this
year we have made no plans to go anywhere as we need to stay with her.
I will be devastated when she finally goes, she is my first and only dog
and has been a real friend to me and I will find it so difficult if I
have to make a decision at some point to have her put down.
I guess what I am asking here is am I doing the right thing at the
moment, I do not know what her quality of life is and I suppose I just
want to think its ok and let things carry on for now. It's easy for me
to get emotional over this and a number of years ago I found this poem
which I have kept the link to that brings tears to my eyes every time I
look at it http://www.la-spca.org/pet_loss/comfort/last_battle.htm
I happen to be a 43 year old bloke with a wife and two young children
but when my dog is finally put to rest it is going to be very difficult.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Trust yourself. Your are her oldest and best friend. Nobody knows her
like you do and nobody loves her more and if you are not sure it's time
yet, then it's not time yet. But one morning in the not-so-distant
future you'll look at her and know that it *is* time.

Given that this is pretty much inevitable (in all my 44 years I've never
had a pet pass quietly in his/her sleep) it helps to make a plan.

Will your vet make housecalls? If not and your dog is upset by car
rides or vet visits maybe he can give you some valium or something to
give her to ease her anxiety.

Can you take a vacation day on short notice, or have your secretary
reschedule your appointments for the day?

Do you want the kids there? What will you tell them, and when?

Will you bring her home for burial or have her cremated?

It's hard and it's horrible but giving an easy ending is the payback we
owe our pets for the grace they bestow upon our lives and souls.
Lis
2007-05-09 14:38:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Hi all,
I have a 15 and half year old English Cocker Spaniel who is now getting old
and tired. During her life she has had little in the way of health problems
but over the last two years in particular has slowed down to a point where
she spends the majority of her time sleeping and only wanders as far as the
back garden. She now poo's and wee's in the house which we have learned to
cope with (Vax is very useful!) and will walk around in circles and not be
so interested in contact and been with us. Due to the leaking if is often
necessary to bath her once a day to avoid her smelling too much, we intend
to replace all the carpet once she is no longer with us.
We can no longer leave her with friends/neighbors for the day and it would
now be difficult for us to take her away in the caravan so this year we have
made no plans to go anywhere as we need to stay with her.
I will be devastated when she finally goes, she is my first and only dog and
has been a real friend to me and I will find it so difficult if I have to
make a decision at some point to have her put down.
I guess what I am asking here is am I doing the right thing at the moment, I
do not know what her quality of life is and I suppose I just want to think
its ok and let things carry on for now. It's easy for me to get emotional
over this and a number of years ago I found this poem which I have kept the
link to that brings tears to my eyes every time I look at ithttp://www.la-spca.org/pet_loss/comfort/last_battle.htm
I happen to be a 43 year old bloke with a wife and two young children but
when my dog is finally put to rest it is going to be very difficult.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Paul
All of us who are pet lovers have to go through this at some point.
It's simpler, not easy, but simpler, when the pet is really ill, and
the illness can't be treated or the treatment would merely prolong
misery. It's harder to know whether you're doing the right thing when
they're just old, and declining from age.

First, I'd say get the dog to the vet for a going-over, if you
haven't. Sometimes there are things that can be done to improve
quality of life. (Maybe you already have done this.) And then, or if
you already have, pay attention to how she acts. Is she _enjoying_
sleeping in the garden? She may well be! She's an elderly lady, and
being able to lie dreaming in the sun may be a real pleasure to her.
Is she miserable? Confused and distressed? Or merely just not quite as
with-it as she was when she was younger?

My great-aunt had a bichon that was seventeen years old, blind, and
deaf--and still enjoyed going out in the garden, or on the screen
porch, and lying in the sun, or by the fireplace in the winter, and
sitting in my g-a's lap. And she enjoyed her meals! Despite outrage
outcry from some of her nieces and nephews ("She's blind! She's
deaf!"), my g-a refused to have her put down--until the arthritis got
really bad, and the little dog could no longer get around without
being in severe pain. THAT robbed her of quality of life, and that's
when my great-aunt had her put to sleep, because she was no longer
enjoying her life.

What I'm saying is, you''re her best friend, you know her best, and if
you don't let yourself get distracted by what other people say, you'll
know when it's time, and she's not enjoying her life anymore. Until
then, don't be moved by anyone who says "but you need to!" and when
the time comes, don't be moved by anyone who says, "how can you?!"

Lis
Judy
2007-05-09 15:39:50 UTC
Permalink
"Lis" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:***@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
Until
Post by Lis
then, don't be moved by anyone who says "but you need to!" and when
the time comes, don't be moved by anyone who says, "how can you?!"
And then afterwards, don't beat yourself up with "what ifs" and "whys".

It's very difficult not to do that especially when you're dealing with
deteriorating health and not a catastophic event. Why today and why not
yesterday? What if tomorrow would have been a little better? Eventually,
you will remember that it was the total of the days and not a specific event
that made your decision.

I always try to remember that dogs live in the present. Your dog doesn't
know that tomorrow may be better or worse. He only knows right now. You,
however, know about yesterday and tomorrow.

When it's time, your heart will know. And there's no wrong answer to the
questions. Someone else in your exact position might make a slightly
different choice. Doesn't matter. It's your heart and your choice to live
with.

Judy
Alison
2007-05-10 10:56:32 UTC
Permalink
Hi Paul,
I would have a chat with your vet and see what can be done. There are
things like Propalyn for leakage which might help. You can get pads for
dogs to wear .
Best wishes

Alison
http://catinfolinks.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/
http://doginfolinks.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/
http://petinfolinks.mysite.orange.co.uk
Post by Paul
Hi all,
I have a 15 and half year old English Cocker Spaniel who is now getting
old and tired. During her life she has had little in the way of health
problems but over the last two years in particular has slowed down to a
point where she spends the majority of her time sleeping and only wanders
as far as the back garden. She now poo's and wee's in the house which we
have learned to cope with (Vax is very useful!) and will walk around in
circles and not be so interested in contact and been with us. Due to the
leaking if is often necessary to bath her once a day to avoid her
smelling too much, we intend to replace all the carpet once she is no
longer with us.
We can no longer leave her with friends/neighbors for the day and it
would now be difficult for us to take her away in the caravan so this
year we have made no plans to go anywhere as we need to stay with her.
I will be devastated when she finally goes, she is my first and only dog
and has been a real friend to me and I will find it so difficult if I
have to make a decision at some point to have her put down.
I guess what I am asking here is am I doing the right thing at the
moment, I do not know what her quality of life is and I suppose I just
want to think its ok and let things carry on for now. It's easy for me to
get emotional over this and a number of years ago I found this poem which
I have kept the link to that brings tears to my eyes every time I look at
it http://www.la-spca.org/pet_loss/comfort/last_battle.htm
I happen to be a 43 year old bloke with a wife and two young children but
when my dog is finally put to rest it is going to be very difficult.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Paul
Shadow Walker
2007-05-15 13:18:36 UTC
Permalink
Quality of life is when what you used to enjoy is no longer an option. Long
walks to no walks , playing ball to no interest, cuddling to aloofness.
Basically hurts too much to do what used to be fun. If your dog did these
things and slowly stopped with age than that's normal. As for the potty in
the house you may need to let her out more often and there is always the
puppy diapers, they help some. You can clip her bottom hair so that the
waste doesn't stick and you change her bottom instead of clean the carpet.
My parents dog made it to 22 years of age and he staid house broken up to
his last day.
Post by Paul
Hi all,
I have a 15 and half year old English Cocker Spaniel who is now getting
old and tired. During her life she has had little in the way of health
problems but over the last two years in particular has slowed down to a
point where she spends the majority of her time sleeping and only wanders
as far as the back garden. She now poo's and wee's in the house which we
have learned to cope with (Vax is very useful!) and will walk around in
circles and not be so interested in contact and been with us. Due to the
leaking if is often necessary to bath her once a day to avoid her smelling
too much, we intend to replace all the carpet once she is no longer with
us.
We can no longer leave her with friends/neighbors for the day and it would
now be difficult for us to take her away in the caravan so this year we
have made no plans to go anywhere as we need to stay with her.
I will be devastated when she finally goes, she is my first and only dog
and has been a real friend to me and I will find it so difficult if I have
to make a decision at some point to have her put down.
I guess what I am asking here is am I doing the right thing at the moment,
I do not know what her quality of life is and I suppose I just want to
think its ok and let things carry on for now. It's easy for me to get
emotional over this and a number of years ago I found this poem which I
have kept the link to that brings tears to my eyes every time I look at it
http://www.la-spca.org/pet_loss/comfort/last_battle.htm
I happen to be a 43 year old bloke with a wife and two young children but
when my dog is finally put to rest it is going to be very difficult.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Paul
Paul
2007-06-15 08:15:30 UTC
Permalink
Thanks all for your comments..

Things have moved on slightly now and I think having visited the vet that
today Sandy will go to sleep for the last time. Her quality of life is not
what it was, she does not go out for walks, she doesn't play ball and she is
not interested in cuddles, everything she does seems such an effort.

She finds it difficult to get up, in particular her back legs are week to
the point where I have seen her sat in her own mess as she was unable to get
up to go.

I hear her whimper at times and know it is either through pain distress

It is still very difficult, she seems to enjoy her food but finds it
difficult to eat... I hope I am doing the right thing but something inside
me this time is saying "let her go"

I feel this is going to be the worst day of my life.

Paul
Post by Shadow Walker
Quality of life is when what you used to enjoy is no longer an option.
Long walks to no walks , playing ball to no interest, cuddling to
aloofness. Basically hurts too much to do what used to be fun. If your dog
did these things and slowly stopped with age than that's normal. As for
the potty in the house you may need to let her out more often and there is
always the puppy diapers, they help some. You can clip her bottom hair so
that the waste doesn't stick and you change her bottom instead of clean
the carpet. My parents dog made it to 22 years of age and he staid house
broken up to his last day.
Post by Paul
Hi all,
I have a 15 and half year old English Cocker Spaniel who is now getting
old and tired. During her life she has had little in the way of health
problems but over the last two years in particular has slowed down to a
point where she spends the majority of her time sleeping and only wanders
as far as the back garden. She now poo's and wee's in the house which we
have learned to cope with (Vax is very useful!) and will walk around in
circles and not be so interested in contact and been with us. Due to the
leaking if is often necessary to bath her once a day to avoid her
smelling too much, we intend to replace all the carpet once she is no
longer with us.
We can no longer leave her with friends/neighbors for the day and it
would now be difficult for us to take her away in the caravan so this
year we have made no plans to go anywhere as we need to stay with her.
I will be devastated when she finally goes, she is my first and only dog
and has been a real friend to me and I will find it so difficult if I
have to make a decision at some point to have her put down.
I guess what I am asking here is am I doing the right thing at the
moment, I do not know what her quality of life is and I suppose I just
want to think its ok and let things carry on for now. It's easy for me to
get emotional over this and a number of years ago I found this poem which
I have kept the link to that brings tears to my eyes every time I look at
it http://www.la-spca.org/pet_loss/comfort/last_battle.htm
I happen to be a 43 year old bloke with a wife and two young children but
when my dog is finally put to rest it is going to be very difficult.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Paul
JF
2007-06-15 09:36:36 UTC
Permalink
X-No-Archive: yes
Post by Paul
I feel this is going to be the worst day of my life.
Get another dog smartish.
--
James Follett. Novelist (Callsign G1LXP)
http://www.jamesfollett.dswilliams.co.uk and http://www.marjacq.com
buglady
2007-06-15 12:22:38 UTC
Permalink
"Paul" <***@nospam.home.com> wrote in message news:CUrci.6654$O%***@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...
.. I hope I am doing the right thing but something inside
Post by Paul
me this time is saying "let her go"
...........everyone gets to that point - you'll always know when it's time.
Post by Paul
I feel this is going to be the worst day of my life.
.........as loony as it sounds, sit down next to her and tell her how much
you've appreciated her being in your life, remember out loud all the good
times, tell her you're going to help her let her body go.

my sincere condolences
buglady
take out the dog before replying
Sharon Too
2007-06-15 12:25:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
I feel this is going to be the worst day of my life.
I'm so sorry you are going through this, but it sounds like you have made
the right decision. Don't doubt it or blame tourself. You have done
everything to help her. Although you'll go through the stages of grief, you
may be surprised that after it's done you may feel a bit of relief. That's
because you have finally made her comfortable.

-Sharon
Simon Finnigan
2007-06-15 13:30:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Thanks all for your comments..
Things have moved on slightly now and I think having visited the vet that
today Sandy will go to sleep for the last time. Her quality of life is not
what it was, she does not go out for walks, she doesn't play ball and she
is not interested in cuddles, everything she does seems such an effort.
She finds it difficult to get up, in particular her back legs are week to
the point where I have seen her sat in her own mess as she was unable to
get up to go.
I hear her whimper at times and know it is either through pain distress
It is still very difficult, she seems to enjoy her food but finds it
difficult to eat... I hope I am doing the right thing but something inside
me this time is saying "let her go"
I feel this is going to be the worst day of my life.
Paul
As another poster has already said, sit down and talk to her about it.
Whether it helps her or not, it WILL help you. And secondly, be prepared
for getting another dog in the very near future. Since I was born almost 29
years ago, I`ve had about 6-7 days when I`ve not had a dog. It`s not
disrespectful to get another dog, but I would say be wary about getting a
"replacement" dog if you see what I mean - be prepared for a whole new
adventure with the new dog. Yes it`s hard at the very end, but you have the
same problems over a longer timescale with friends and family. When you
consider the alternative, of living a very sad and lonely life, the price
you pay now is worth it a million times over for the years of companionship
you`ll have.
Neil
2007-06-19 23:25:40 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 14:30:31 +0100, "Simon Finnigan"
Post by Simon Finnigan
As another poster has already said, sit down and talk to her about it.
Whether it helps her or not, it WILL help you. And secondly, be prepared
for getting another dog in the very near future. Since I was born almost 29
years ago, I`ve had about 6-7 days when I`ve not had a dog. It`s not
disrespectful to get another dog, but I would say be wary about getting a
"replacement" dog if you see what I mean - be prepared for a whole new
adventure with the new dog. Yes it`s hard at the very end, but you have the
same problems over a longer timescale with friends and family. When you
consider the alternative, of living a very sad and lonely life, the price
you pay now is worth it a million times over for the years of companionship
you`ll have.
I have been were you are now(as I think I said before), and I too
would not recommend getting another dog straight away. What I did was
to become a volunteer dog walker at a local rescue shelter where my
old dog Jet had come from. It was a way of giving back to the other
dogs some of the companionship and affection that my Jet had given me
for so many years. It was also very good therapy for me dealing with
the loss.

I can strongly recommend it!

Neil.
(Reply via NG please)
Simon Finnigan
2007-06-20 06:07:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil
On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 14:30:31 +0100, "Simon Finnigan"
Post by Simon Finnigan
As another poster has already said, sit down and talk to her about it.
Whether it helps her or not, it WILL help you. And secondly, be prepared
for getting another dog in the very near future. Since I was born almost 29
years ago, I`ve had about 6-7 days when I`ve not had a dog. It`s not
disrespectful to get another dog, but I would say be wary about getting a
"replacement" dog if you see what I mean - be prepared for a whole new
adventure with the new dog. Yes it`s hard at the very end, but you have the
same problems over a longer timescale with friends and family. When you
consider the alternative, of living a very sad and lonely life, the price
you pay now is worth it a million times over for the years of
companionship
you`ll have.
I have been were you are now(as I think I said before), and I too
would not recommend getting another dog straight away. What I did was
to become a volunteer dog walker at a local rescue shelter where my
old dog Jet had come from. It was a way of giving back to the other
dogs some of the companionship and affection that my Jet had given me
for so many years. It was also very good therapy for me dealing with
the loss.
For me that wouldn`t be a good way of dealing with the loss, as I wouldn`t
get the companionship (wanted or unwanted) that having a pet sharing your
home gives. Having said that, every now and again I wouldn`t mind being
able to type a post without having an idiot dog decide that it`s time for a
stroke, and trying to put his head on the keyboard to get attention :-)
m***@hotmail.com
2007-06-20 19:05:31 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 07:07:01 +0100, "Simon Finnigan"
Post by Simon Finnigan
Having said that, every now and again I wouldn`t mind being
able to type a post without having an idiot dog decide that it`s time for a
stroke, and trying to put his head on the keyboard to get attention :-)
If you are like me Simon you don't mean what you have wrote above do
you ! :)). Now had you got one of the noblest of breeds you would not
have that problem our two Danes are streatched out on the sofa snoring
their beautiful heads of have been since 6 pm and will be until around
10 pm when it is walky time, it is the same every night not just
tonight during the day it is a different matter :)))))))))))))))))) .
Simon Finnigan
2007-06-21 11:38:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@hotmail.com
On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 07:07:01 +0100, "Simon Finnigan"
Post by Simon Finnigan
Having said that, every now and again I wouldn`t mind being
able to type a post without having an idiot dog decide that it`s time for a
stroke, and trying to put his head on the keyboard to get attention :-)
If you are like me Simon you don't mean what you have wrote above do
you ! :)). Now had you got one of the noblest of breeds you would not
have that problem our two Danes are streatched out on the sofa snoring
their beautiful heads of have been since 6 pm and will be until around
10 pm when it is walky time, it is the same every night not just
tonight during the day it is a different matter :)))))))))))))))))) .
Have you tried typing with an idiot Lab spending over an HOUR trying to fit
his head onto your lap? I`m sat close in to the desk, which is about 2
inches over my lap, but he`s still convinced that if he tried hard enough,
for long enough, he`ll manage to fit his head there!

Although at the moment he`s lying right infront of the front door snoring.
Anyway, he IS a noble dog, full of character and dignity. Apart from when he
trips over his own feet and falls face first into a wall of course :-)
m***@hotmail.com
2007-06-21 14:23:30 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 12:38:22 +0100, "Simon Finnigan"
Post by Simon Finnigan
Have you tried typing with an idiot Lab spending over an HOUR trying to fit
his head onto your lap? I`m sat close in to the desk, which is about 2
inches over my lap, but he`s still convinced that if he tried hard enough,
for long enough, he`ll manage to fit his head there!
Nothing at all wrong with a Lab Simon had one from being five until 18
he actually died one week before I started my national service but I
find nowadays that they are a little bit over friendly for my liking .
The lady I bought our Dane bitch from the other week also breeds Labs
she took me in her office and one she had in there just came over and
greeted me like it had known me all its life like I have said having
had GSD's and now Danes Labs are a litttle bit tame for my liking
these days .
Simon Finnigan
2007-06-21 15:24:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@hotmail.com
On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 12:38:22 +0100, "Simon Finnigan"
Post by Simon Finnigan
Have you tried typing with an idiot Lab spending over an HOUR trying to fit
his head onto your lap? I`m sat close in to the desk, which is about 2
inches over my lap, but he`s still convinced that if he tried hard enough,
for long enough, he`ll manage to fit his head there!
Nothing at all wrong with a Lab Simon had one from being five until 18
he actually died one week before I started my national service but I
find nowadays that they are a little bit over friendly for my liking .
The lady I bought our Dane bitch from the other week also breeds Labs
she took me in her office and one she had in there just came over and
greeted me like it had known me all its life like I have said having
had GSD's and now Danes Labs are a litttle bit tame for my liking
these days .
Don`t get me wrong, I do love Adam (our Lab) to bits. But he only ever goes
mad for attention when you`re busy. When you`re free and want to spend time
with him, he`d prefer to sit by the front door and sleep. He`s a weird dog
:-)
m***@hotmail.com
2007-06-21 17:15:36 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:24:53 +0100, "Simon Finnigan"
Post by Simon Finnigan
Don`t get me wrong, I do love Adam (our Lab) to bits. But he only ever goes
mad for attention when you`re busy. When you`re free and want to spend time
with him, he`d prefer to sit by the front door and sleep. He`s a weird dog
:-)
Usually the case Simon no really bothered about you when you are not
occupied with computer or family but he does want you when you are
there is a little jealousy in there somewhere. Now our young Ranji
could not care less providing he gets fed and watered and can sleep
and visit the toilet when he wants he just couldn't care less about
us. Believe it or not there are quite a lot of temperamental
differences between the colors of Danes, Ranji is a "blue" and blues
and blacks mostly have this you are the dog and they the master
attitude feed me water me etc and leave me alone whereas fawns and
Brindles are sort of middle of the road and the harlequins just love
to be pampered and made a fuss of all day long. If I sit on the sofa
you can bet Velvet will come and try and sit on my lap and a Dane on
your lap is not the most comfortable of positions to be sat in .

Case Dekker
2007-06-20 07:18:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Thanks all for your comments..
Things have moved on slightly now and I think having visited the vet
that today Sandy will go to sleep for the last time. Her quality of life
is not what it was, she does not go out for walks, she doesn't play ball
and she is not interested in cuddles, everything she does seems such an
effort.
She finds it difficult to get up, in particular her back legs are week
to the point where I have seen her sat in her own mess as she was unable
to get up to go.
I hear her whimper at times and know it is either through pain distress
It is still very difficult, she seems to enjoy her food but finds it
difficult to eat... I hope I am doing the right thing but something
inside me this time is saying "let her go"
I feel this is going to be the worst day of my life.
Paul
Post by Shadow Walker
Quality of life is when what you used to enjoy is no longer an option.
Long walks to no walks , playing ball to no interest, cuddling to
aloofness. Basically hurts too much to do what used to be fun. If your
dog did these things and slowly stopped with age than that's normal.
As for the potty in the house you may need to let her out more often
and there is always the puppy diapers, they help some. You can clip
her bottom hair so that the waste doesn't stick and you change her
bottom instead of clean the carpet. My parents dog made it to 22 years
of age and he staid house broken up to his last day.
Post by Paul
Hi all,
I have a 15 and half year old English Cocker Spaniel who is now
getting old and tired. During her life she has had little in the way
of health problems but over the last two years in particular has
slowed down to a point where she spends the majority of her time
sleeping and only wanders as far as the back garden. She now poo's
and wee's in the house which we have learned to cope with (Vax is
very useful!) and will walk around in circles and not be so
interested in contact and been with us. Due to the leaking if is
often necessary to bath her once a day to avoid her smelling too
much, we intend to replace all the carpet once she is no longer with us.
We can no longer leave her with friends/neighbors for the day and it
would now be difficult for us to take her away in the caravan so this
year we have made no plans to go anywhere as we need to stay with her.
I will be devastated when she finally goes, she is my first and only
dog and has been a real friend to me and I will find it so difficult
if I have to make a decision at some point to have her put down.
I guess what I am asking here is am I doing the right thing at the
moment, I do not know what her quality of life is and I suppose I
just want to think its ok and let things carry on for now. It's easy
for me to get emotional over this and a number of years ago I found
this poem which I have kept the link to that brings tears to my eyes
every time I look at it
http://www.la-spca.org/pet_loss/comfort/last_battle.htm
I happen to be a 43 year old bloke with a wife and two young children
but when my dog is finally put to rest it is going to be very difficult.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Paul
We wnt through this on May 18 2007 and we are still heartbroken. Time
will heal that more or less.
Our dog gave us her unconditional love for 9 years. She made us happy
and laugh at the crazy things she did and the only thing she ever asked
us was to let her go. She told us she was sick and could not be healed.
she told us that she lost her spirit, although her soul and body were
still here. She told us that the quality of her life was such that she
no longer enjoyed it. We did let her go. On that last day we took her
for a ride. She watched the fields, the trees, the sheep, the flowers.

My friend, I tell you it is going to hurt more then you can imagine and
even more than that. I hope that in a while you will realise that you
made the right decision. god bless.

Case
m***@hotmail.com
2007-06-20 19:09:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Case Dekker
My friend, I tell you it is going to hurt more then you can imagine and
even more than that.
You never wrote a more true word Case and the hurt doesn't get any
less painful no matter how many times you go through the process.
m***@hotmail.com
2007-06-20 18:56:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
I feel this is going to be the worst day of my life.
Hi Paul all us true dog lovers have this horrible thing to face
probably more than once in our association with our four legged
friends and you just have to be prepared for it long in advance
if his/her death is not really going to get to you and maybe make
you ill also .
We lost our Ellie seven weeks ago and yes it was yet another
worst day of our lives and I really mean that I only kept myself
together due to knowing that we had made the right decision and to
have done otherwise would have been nothing but cruel. Like a few
people have said here give yourself a few days to greave and then
go get yourself a new friend .We lost Ellie ( Great Dane )on a Friday
lunchtime the following Tuesday afternoon we where of over to Retford
to collect our beautiful Blue Dane 5 month old puppy ( Ranji )and two
weeks ago we bought a 13 month old Harlequin bitch called Velvet Velvi
for short .
OK it really is double worst days of our lives waiting to happen but
the days/years of pleasure and companionship before are well worth
the heartbreak believe me . We still remember Ellie and the Danes
that went before her almost every day and they are all sadly missed
and always will be you just cannot replace one dog with another it is
impossible but when you love having dogs around you it is no use
sitting around every day being miserable and sad .
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